A disabled, visually-impaired gamer has filed suit against Sony Corporation of America, Sony Computer Entertainment America and Sony Online Entertainment claiming that the defendants are denying people with disabilities equal access to their goods and services.
The suit was filed by plaintiff Alexander Stern on October 23 in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California. Stern seeks to “put an end to systemic civil rights violations” allegedly perpetrated by the defendants.
Stern claims to have sent both physical and electronic mail to officials at Sony requesting “minor modifications” that would remove the barrier to gaming for disabled people. In the complaint, Stern says that a Sony representative told him that “Sony would not offer any modifications whatsoever for persons with disabilities.”
Among other actions, Stern is seeking an injunction to prohibit Sony from violating the Americans with Disabilities Act, a declaration that Sony owns, operates and maintains equipment that discriminates against the disabled, unspecified damages and to have his lawyer’s fees and expenses paid for.
The plaintiff added in the complaint that games such as World of Warcraft do support access by disabled and/or visually impaired people by “providing visual cues through several simple third-party modifications.” Stern notes that other accessibility features are available and have been implemented by “companies whose resources pale in comparison with Sony’s.”
The suit also names “Does 1 through 10,” as the plaintiff “does not presently know the true names and capacities of the defendants.”
|Via GameSpot|
Comments
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
You're legally blind, I never knew that. How are you able to read the computer screen?
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Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
My face is usually about 6 inches or less from the screen at all times when reading.
I typically keep the resolution of both my work and home computer at 800x600. It used to be... what... 640x480? I can't remember anymore. In recent years, 800x600 has pretty much become the minimum requirements for most everything.
Of course, I can sit back for general game playing. Smaller objects are still hard to see and make out unless there is some sort of "cue" (like flashing). Games like NeverWinter Nights let you hold down a key (tab I think) and everything that can be manipulated will "glow". Sometimes that helps. But I don't think there is that option in Dungeons & Dragons Online. And seeing some things are hard. But I think that's part of the game too. To overlook some things, like devices to disable traps.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000
Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Maybe you should consider suing them to make DDO more accessible for you.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Not right now, thank you. I have sufficient other options to try first.
Those 32" TV/monitors are looking particularly sweet right about now. :)
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000
Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
I'm glad you mentioned the concept of getting a bigger monitor because I was afraid of appearing flippant with regards to suggesting that the complainant in this lawsuit do just that.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Because being legally blind isn't the same thing as being functionally blind. You can be less than 100% functionally blind and still satisfy the requirements for being legally blind.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Yes, I believe the requirement of accommodating the disabled has to be within reason. Or, put differently, an unreasonable accommodation can't be required. But if the plaintiff is correct when he asserts that the addition of audible cues would equip him to play the game, that requirement doesn't sound unreasonable. It sounds like an easy enough fix, well within Sony's resources.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Huh... That is so stupid... It is a so frivolous lawsuit... :(
Why you US people are so lawsuit happy?
criadordejogos.wordpress.com
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Because it's easy to do and there's always a lawyer out there that'll take your case, even if there's zero chance of winning. We also don't force the loser to pay the winner's legal fees without a counter-suit or it being a part of the lawsuit. Plus large companies are more apt to just settle out of court to little things to avoid their legal bills and wasting time and a fear of potential bad publicity, especially when they know there's a chance of losing. Though when they decide to defend themselves you best hope you win or reach a settlement because they'll have the power wreck you financially due to their expensive lawyers.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Who is this guys lawyer? The only reason I ask is because there was a lawyer in California posing as disabled man, who would go into bathrooms at stores and restaurants find a so called infraction, He would literally measure everything and if anything was even a centimeter off he would threaten to sue the owners unless they gave him a ridiculous amount of money on the spot. As most refused he would then have an actual disabled person go into the location, raise a fuss and sue under the American's with Disabilities Act. This sounds like the same situation; Sony does not meet the demands of the guy so he is going to sue them for discrimination under theADA
"Among other actions, Stern is seeking an injunction to prohibit Sony from violating the Americans with Disabilities Act, a declaration that Sony owns, operates and maintains equipment that discriminates against the disabled, unspecified damages and to have his lawyer’s fees and expenses paid for."
Yeah good luck proving that. Just because you cannot "Pwn bitches" online due to your disability does not mean that Sony is discriminating against you.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Hrm. I am probably thinking of a different person, but the one I heard of was doing something similiar because it turns out ADA is not actually activly enforced, so he would go around sueing for infractions because otherwise nothing would be done. ADA is completely dependent on citizens bringing suits against offenders for enforcement.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Federal office buildings open to the public have to be ADA compliant. Constructions plans for those buildings can't even get approved if they don't comply. I could be wrong, but I also believe that other federal laws required existing federal buildings to be retrofitted so that they become ADA compliant. You'd be hard pressed to find a federal building that doesn't have a ramp or its elevator buttons in Braille.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
True, federal buildings are a differnt matter. The same might extend to federal contractors since they are generally audited for complaiance otherwise they do not get paid.
Privatly constructed structures though have no such inspection, unless that has changed.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Either you didn't read what you were replying to properly or you are thinking of a different guy. He was demanding money there and then OR ELSE he would file a suit. That's called extortion.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
*nods* which is why I said that I am probably thinking of a differnt guy. Though I recall him being painted with the same brush.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
I think I heard about that guy, didn't he get exposed on Penn & Tellers Bullshit!?
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Am I missing something here, or is this guy suing Sony because he can't see visual-based media?
Are other blind people suing art galleries because they can't see the paintings?
Are they suing newspapers because they can't see the print?
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Until more information comes out, it is hard to say.
Since he was talking about visual cues, my guess is that he is not blind but instead had some type of visual defect and is asking for options that make the game more accessable similiar to what is already built into OSes and many websites.
It actually relates to something I have been noticing lately. Many games used to have things like alternate colour pallets for colourblind people (since it is pretty common in males) or high contrast pallets for other visual issues.. but I have not seen anything like that in years. I guess when your market is small you try to include as many customers as possible, but when your market is large you do not bother.
Which always seems rather odd. In any other buisness (then computers), if someone comes up and says 'hey, I can get you 5-10% more customers for a cheap modification!' you get praised. But in comptuers and games you get rants saying 'it is only 5-10%! we should not change anything for a minority!'.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
More information is already available but GP, in its "infinite wisdom" decided to leave it out of their version of events.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Apparently this all came about after he sent a letter to THQ making suggestions about they could modify their WWE games so that he could see it better (self-centered much?) and got back a letter thanking him for praising the graphics.
And now he claims the lack of visual aids in Everquest is losing him ACTUAL money. Just because someone isn't disabled doesn't exclude them from being a dick.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
In all fairness but without benefit of having read his complaint, he appears to be just as, if not more, concerned with getting injunctive and declaratory relief as he is with the monetary damages. Perhaps he's one of the rare breed of plaintiffs who aren't interested in making a buck with their lawsuit but, rather, wants to fix what they see as a problem.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
'Beyond the denial of entertainment, the suit also contends that Sony's actions have caused visually impaired gamers a financial loss. Because Sony runs an official auction site where gamers can sell their in-game items for real money, the suit says Stern's inability to participate in that marketplace is costing him money. '
Lol wut?
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Yeah, that for me is the most revealing part of the complaint. Funny how Gamepolitics neglected to include it in their article isn't it?
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Indeed, it is the most revealing part of the complaint. It's also, as you mentioned, very interesting that it didn't make the cut for reporting, as it's kind of telling of the motivation of the complainant.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
As an aside to all this, Gamepolitics appears to have made the complaint out to be more about trying to make things better for visually-impaired people rather than about money, a rather misleading change from the original Gamespot article and complaint.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
And what next, a deaf person suing record labels because he can't hear albums? The only "problem" is that a person with visual impairment is trying to use a VISUAL medium.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Whether it makes sense or not, that is what the ADA requires of those who open an accommodation to the public. It doesn't matter that it's a quadriplegic who's insisting that Gold's Gym put in a wheelchair ramp so he can't work out at Gold's Gym. The ADA requires Gold's Gym to put in the ramp, regardless of whether or not the quadriplegic has much practical use for the accommodations being offered by Gold's Gym.
And the buying an album and being able to listen to it analogy is misplaced. The mere fact of selling someone an album doesn't, I would think, qualify as creating a public accommodation. But if you own a brick-and-mortar record store open to the public, you can't discriminate against the deaf guy by denying him access functionally equal to all others.
And many business concerns have been required to put in telephone systems which accommodate the hearing-impaired. That a deaf guy wants to call them up on the telephone and conduct business with them isn't an excuse for them not to install a TDD system, regardless of how ridiculous the expectation may seem to others.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Since when were Everquest servers or WWE games brick-and-mortar establishments? To put it in your own misplaced terms, nobody is denying him access to these games. He can buy them, pop them in the playstation or whatever, subscribe for an account. It's not their fault he fails to take into account the fact he can't see them when they are running. The game is just as "functionally equal" for him as it is for anyone else. HE'S the one that isn't "functionally equal".
Also, I'd imagine a quadriplegic would have a hard time using a wheelchair unassisted.
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I LIKE the fence. I get 2 groups to laugh at then.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
The brick-and-mortar examples were used only as clear examples of a public accommodation. But if there is a virtual community which Sony has created and to which it has invited all to enter and partake of the goods and/or services offered therein, then that could also be construed as a public accommodation and one to which the requirements of the ADA would apply just as they would apply to a brick-and-mortar public accommodation. Moreover, if the plaintiff's claim is factually valid, there are reasonable steps which Sony can take and which would allow him to partake of those goods and/or services (e.g., audible cues). It's not as if the fact that he can't see the visuals makes it wholly impossible for him to play the game. As he tells the story, if Sony does what it has to in order to accommodate him, he can.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Well, if this really had any sort of legs, visually impaired people could sue book publishers because the print is too small. If anything, this will be thrown out in order to prevent that kind of precedent.
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He was dead when I got here.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Actually, no. If the book somehow blocked 3rd party hardware/software (magnifying glasses, CCTV devices, etc) from being used, then, yes, one might have a case.
Now, interesting sidebar, there HAS been some serious debate about the legality of blocking Text-To-Speech in the use of Amazon's Kindle device.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000
Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
The Americans with Disabilities Act, under which the plaintiff in this case brings legal action, only applies to those who create a "public accommodation" (a particular place where goods and/or services are offered to the public for consumption). If a visually-impaired person sued a book publisher because the print in their book was too small, the obvious basis for throwing out the suit, regardless of legal precedent, would be the simple fact that the book publisher by mere virtue of being a publisher of books hasn't in any way created a public accommodation. No public accommodation, no valid ADA lawsuit. It don't take much legal precedent to figure that one out, just a little bit of common sense.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Wow. Oh, wait, I forgot, you believe every corporation in this world should be brought down, cuz you're some bleeding-heart douchebag. Yep, it's all Sony's fault this guy isn't making money, so let's take 'em down.
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He was dead when I got here.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
What I haven't forgot is that regardless of how confident you make yourself sound in pontificating on legal matters, you still don't know the difference between canons of law and a can of lard.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
-kicks in the door-
"WHAT'D I MISS?! I HEARD THE SOUNDS OF PEOPLE WHINING, AND I CAME AS QUICKLY AS I COULD!"
"HEY! LISTEN!"
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
The Above the Law Crowd is already declaring this dead on arrival. Probably won't survive a motion to dismiss.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
I'm not so sure that he's D.O.A. If he's claiming that Sony's on-line, multi-player, gaming sites are public accommodations (which, intuitively and without benefit of much knowledge of the ADA, I can see where they would be), and he's legally correct in so claiming, then he's got some legs underneath him. Besides, as a disabled person, he's a sympathetic plaintiff. While Sony, I'd imagine, would tend not to elicit much sympathy from anyone.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
The inherit difference here though is that this is a private corporation which provides no brick and mortar outlets. In that case, say if they did not provide accomodations for wheel-chair bound individuals, then that would be different. However, saying that Sony does not make accomodations for blind persons is ridiculous.
You might as well sign up every single TV or Display manufacturer onto that list of defendents as well. But don't stop there, because you know you will need to sign up audio companies as well for not tending to the needs of the deaf; networks for not producing a dynamic board which produces multiple tactitle responses in the form of braile; content producers for not producing content for handicapped individuals. Yes, these are all ridiculous suits, but the point is still the same.
Besides, why sue only Sony? Why not Microsoft? Nintendo? Jillians? Dave and Busters? The Arcade on the corner down the street?
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Papa Midnight
http://www.thesupersoldiers.com
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Papa Midnight
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Which, I believe, makes the salient issue in this case whether or not "public accommodations" as that term is used in the ADA can include virtual business places or is limited to brick-and-mortar establishments. And the answer to that question doesn't immediately become clear to me. If a public accommodation is, as I assume, defined by the ADA as a particular place open to all members of the public whereat goods and/or services are offered for consumption to that public and doesn't specifically limit itself to brick-and-mortars, then why wouldn't a virtual on-line gaming community such as those hosted by Sony satisfy that definition?
And this is, I would think, the issue upon which plaintiff's claim either sinks or swims. If he is correct in asserting that Sony's on-line gaming community is in fact a "public accommodation," then the rest of his hurdles are relatively low set. But if can't establish that there's any "public accommodation" at issue, then his case is effectively crippled at that point.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Nice pun.
"HEY! LISTEN!"
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Thanks. I was hoping someone would catch it.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
That deaf, dumb, and blind kid sure plays a mean pinball.
Re: Disabled Gamer Sues Sony
Tommy was an awesome play. Thanks for brining back that flood of memories.
"That's not ironic. That's justice."