ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade Operator

December 15, 2009 -

The American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP) is targeting at least one operator of a commercial Guitar Hero arcade unit over what it says are unpaid licensing fees associated with operating the game.

The operator in question posted on the Arcade-Museum forums (thanks TechDirt) that ASCAP is demanding an $800 a year license to operate the unit legally. The operator added that, while his place of business does have live musical acts, they are relegated to performing original (i.e. their own) songs in order to circumvent just such a need to pay a royalty fee.

While there might be some confusion on either or both sides if a consumer version of Guitar Hero was being used, it’s rather clear that in this case a commercial arcade unit is at the center of the story, as the site operator indicated he told the ASCAP representative to contact Raw Thrills, a purveyor of arcade units, including Guitar Hero.  Also, the ASCAP rep told the operator that she viewed the Guitar Hero unit as a jukebox of sorts.

ASCAP’s licensing FAQ contains the question “I'm interested in playing music in my restaurant or other business. I know that I need permission for live performances. Do I need permission if I am using only CD's, records, tapes, radio or TV?”

The answer posted on the site:

Yes, you will need permission to play records or tapes in your establishment. Permission for radio and television transmissions in your business is not needed if the performance is by means of public communication of TV or radio transmissions by eating, drinking, retail or certain other establishments of a certain size which use a limited number of speakers or TVs, and if the reception is not further transmitted (for example, from one room to another) from the place in which it is received, and there is no admission charge.

We have a request for clarification into ASCAP and will update this story if a response or statement is issued.

Update: AN ASCAP spokesperson told GP, "ASCAP is currently in negotiations with the manufacturer for the commercial use of these machines."


Comments

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Great, as if music games were expesive enough to get into.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

meh I dont like these games anyway their terrible all their going to achieve is making owners not want them and buyers not buy them arcade machines are pretty much dead as is without their help their "cut" wont be worth the legal bills not unless the judge throws out a stupidly large number as they do far too often these days PAY 10 MILLION the people they make pay dont even have close to that much money

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

I don't understand, weren't the artists already paid for the inclusion of their songs in the Guitar Hero arcade game?

Or is it that these guys think they can get a cut too?

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Its legal for a group like this to to levy places under public proformance stuff.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Though I think this thread really shows just how much damage the RIAA has done to public perception.  Pretty much ANY mention of artists getting compensated away from live shows and swag results in quite a bit of venom.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

""Though I think this thread really shows just how much damage the RIAA has done to public perception.  Pretty much ANY mention of artists getting compensated away from live shows and swag results in quite a bit of venom.""

And paid via radio and paid even video and paid via movie and paid via CD/tape/DVD and paid through most modern resources unless of corse no one wants it then it gets bitchy when people start talking about it and playing it..... there comes a time when somethings are for the sake of the art or daily life and not something for the indutry to dig their claws in because they feel they are more "special" than any other form of media.....

===========================


""Yes and no.

The argument goes that they were paid for the content, but not for the preformance, which is legally considered a seperate thing.""


Which is also outmoded in this day and age and should be done away with altogather........


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

I don't know.. if businesses find enough value in the music to their customers that they play it (and profit by it), then the music in that form has economic value and the people who produce it have a right to ask for a cut of the money people are making off their material.  These are not poor grannies or kids downloading songs for their own personal listening.  These are places of business that recieve a tangible income boost from the content.

there comes a time when somethings are for the sake of the art or daily life and not something for the industry to dig their claws in because they feel they are more "special" than any other form of media.....

Actually, these fees apply to other forms too.  This is why when you buy a consumer DVD or film it explicitly states that it is not intended for public consumption.

As for 'sake of the art', it might be 'just art' to someone listening or an amature, but to people who make their living off of it, their art is also their livelihood.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

HBO is famous - or, perhaps, infamous - for going after sports bars and the like who pay-per-view HBO's content, such a boxing match, and then use it to attract customers to their business. HBO argues that it isn't enough to just get paid by the business for the view but, rather, they are entitled to a cut of the revenue derived from the business' customers. Which, if you think about it, isn't entirely far-fetched or unreasonable. All those customers sitting in the sports bar and watching the boxing match have no need to subscribe to HBO. HBO is, technically, losing business to the sports bar, even though the sport bar has already paid to view the event. Sharing it with customers at a theoretical loss to HBO is what that creates the problem from HBO's perspective. 

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

But the difference is that arcade machines, like the one in question, ARE intended to provide entertainment to a wide audience, and, as I pointed out, this bar isn't the only bar, much less establishment, that has this game in particular, much less other GH arcade offerings.  I would have to assume that, to make this arcade game, such legal ramifications have been considered by developers, because I doubt any bar or video arcade would pay ASCAP a fee that high to use one game.  A lot of places may not even recoup that cost by the game, depending on the price to play the game and the popularity of the establishment.

Also, this does bring up the whole used game fiasco, too, as artists aren't paid for a used copy of GH or Rock Band.  Is ASCAP going to go after GameStop and other used game vendors for the resale of music games, too?

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

"provide entertainment to a wide audience"

Becuse of that it can be levyed upon by the artis group due to current public proformance laws.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Artists are already paid for Guitar Hero/Rock Band.  That's the whole point.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Yes and no.

The argument goes that they were paid for the content, but not for the preformance, which is legally considered a seperate thing.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Come to the front of the class and receive your gold star, Neeneko.

Right you are. Those are called "mechanicals" and are an entirely different kettle of fish.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

But wouldn't the legal ramifications be exactly the same for the video arcades I play this same machine at?  As a matter of fact, the video arcade gets their profit directly from this game, not indirectly, in the case of a bar.  I'm pretty sure this is a bit overreaching.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

But wouldn't the legal ramifications be exactly the same for the video arcades I play this same machine at?  As a matter of fact, the video arcade gets their profit directly from this game, not indirectly, in the case of a bar.  I'm pretty sure this is a bit overreaching.

----


Its Not over reaching due to the nature of copy right via public performance both the UK and US have it so the CP owner can ban together and go after instances of public performance, in the UK its to the point a radio in a office setting my by leveed and this was in the news a year or 2 ago.



One of the reasons why you don't see it applied to arcade in general they do not treat it as a public performance but I guess if their lawyers get wind of it they can and put the final nail in the coffin of arcades....



Its a highly antiquated  and out moded  from of industry levy, we would be better off if this was folded into a "media data" tax, a 10% tax on the net and any and all data storage devices(from disc writers to flash to magnet driven data storage,ect ) , the main artist group gets 5%, CP conglomerates get 3% and the final 2% goes to operation and enforcement, FYI the current tax on blank media would be dropped of course.



I am not against "taxing" the public in a reasonable and fair way, with this setup you'll have more interest put into balancing CP since more funds are going to the industry as a whole, I mean come on a few highly publicized sht storms and it will be forced to be fair and balanced :P



Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

It would make less sense, but yes, it would also apply to playing them in dedicated archades, just like having a sound system or jukebox in such a noisy enviroment would count.

It could be argued that it should not though since in such an enviroment the music content is not adding significant independent value to the buisness... which brings up the question of, should the fees be based off how much value is being added or just the availablity of the machine?  Tricky stuff.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

If you aren't a member of ASCAP and/or you don't register a particular work with ASCAP, then ASCAP will not concern itself with collecting royalties on the public performance of a work. They only collect on behalf of their members. And they use some very questionable means of "counting" the number of public performances a particular piece of work may enjoy because, obviously, they don't literally count each and every performance and then collect on that basis. Instead, they charge a flat fee and then try to distribute those fees on the basis of sampling and averaging and doing a whole lotta guess work. Which has caused it own membership to complain that their accounting methods screw the no-name, less popular artists in favor of the big-name heavyweights. 

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

What a load or crap.  What about stores that have these games set up as displays.  What about stores that play songs over the PA for background music?  What about people who play music in public?  Why don't they just go after people who play CDs too loudly in their cars?

ASCAP can fuck off.  Artists don't need that solid gold swimming pool anyway.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Hey its revune they can go after who cares if tis out moded in these times!!


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

"Also, the ASCAP rep told the operator that she viewed the Guitar Hero unit as a jukebox of sorts."

So does this mean that cabinets like Dance Dance Revolution have to pay royalties too? They play music too even though the songs are dance mixes.

This is utter BS.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Apparently this is something ASCAP has been looking into for a while now, so this is either their test case, or simply the first one to reach sites like GP.  I did find a piece written by the ASCAP that talks about RockBand and DDR as part of a class of preformance that needs to be looked at.

In all fairness, if games are going to be treated like other media (which GP regulars assert quite often), then the ASCAP has a point since both systems do function a jukeboxes, and such machines do have a lisence fee associated with them.  So locations need to either start paying the fees OR get the fees eliminiated for other types.  Otherwise we are asking for games to be treated special/differnt, which I am not sure is a good thing.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Ya but you do not interact with a jutebox beyond playing a tune one dose not merely listen to a game machine but interacts with it, once the interaction stops the music stops. Unlike a jukebox that keeps playing without interaction,at least until the songs paid for run out. They are different animals a house cat is a threat to mice and idiot dogs of any size a Tiger is a threat to all.

But seriously the notion of performance compensation as its handled these days is a joke....

 


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Depends on the jukebox.  I remember working on one (and was aware of at least one another) that had dual music/game functionality.

For the preformance compensation in general.. I actually have mixed feelings on that one.  Stepping away from the ASCAP and it's demands/tactics/etc (which is always hard to do when a trade group is being annoying), I think thier goal is an important one.   You have buisnesses that are enriching their own bottom line and improving customer experince via content created by people they do not employ.  Places do not play background music for the hell of it, they do it because customers enjoy it and thus are willing to spend more time and money in an establishment.  A well placed jukebox brings in several times it's coinbox in increases buisness... thus the music ads a significant economic added benifit to the location.

So in theory, what the ASCAP is trying to do is get a cut of that advantage to the people who created the content the locations are profiting off of.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

"""Depends on the jukebox.  I remember working on one (and was aware of at least one another) that had dual music/game functionality.

For the performance compensation in general.. I actually have mixed feelings on that one.  Stepping away from the ASCAP and it's demands/tactics/etc (which is always hard to do when a trade group is being annoying), I think thier goal is an important one.   You have buisnesses that are enriching their own bottom line and improving customer experience via content created by people they do not employ.  Places do not play background music for the hell of it, they do it because customers enjoy it and thus are willing to spend more time and money in an establishment.  A well placed jukebox brings in several times it's coinbox in increases business... thus the music ads a significant economic added benifit to the location.

So in theory, what the ASCAP is trying to do is get a cut of that advantage to the people who created the content the locations are profiting off of.""

I see what you are getting at its not what you do with it its the fact its in public and trying to make a profit...but anything copy righted can fall under that and thats just BS, the licensing and all that is paid for anything more is desperate grabs from a dieing business model desperate for revenue it keeps losing due to mismanagement and sheer greed.......

 

But getting back to the subjct at hand its either an interactive performance like any other game or just another music performance, it may well be both if thats the case the publish better make a deal with them to pay the fees otherwise less places will fool with having to pay a extra fee to run a game machine that is hard enough to up keep....


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

But getting back to the subjct at hand its either an interactive performance like any other game or just another music performance, it may well be both if thats the case the publish better make a deal with them to pay the fees otherwise less places will fool with having to pay a extra fee to run a game machine that is hard enough to up keep....

This gets into another aspect that gets rather confusing.

When I worked with jukeboxes, generally it was the operator, not the location, that paid the fees, and those fees were often bundled with the service contract from the distributer.  The location itself generally got a cut from the coinbox (and credit card) revenue minus the appropriate charges.

One problem we are probably runing into here is that a fee which was mostly invisible to end locations (or the location was too small to attract notice) is starting to be delt with explicitly due to breaking away from the distributer->operator->location model.  Here is where my sympathy is a bit strained since it is not a case of a new fee, but one they either avoided or had someone else take care of for them, thus they feel that they should not have to pay it because they never did in the past.

I have heard similiar complaints from DYI construction, since permits (and insurance) were generally either handled by the contractor or they stayed under the radar, but that is slowly changing as inspectors become more aware of all the projects that are skipping the process.

Heh.  Though something I should point out.  While I am arguing from the ASCAP's side, I am actually quite against these royalties.  I am, however, strongly in favor of consistancy and uniform application of rules.  I would prefer that all cases be dropped, but I am not in favor of video games like this being exempt because they are 'interactive'.  It it too similiar to the arguments for why games need to be treated differntly in other areas of the law.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

But getting back to the subjct at hand its either an interactive performance like any other game or just another music performance, it may well be both if thats the case the publish better make a deal with them to pay the fees otherwise less places will fool with having to pay a extra fee to run a game machine that is hard enough to up keep....

This gets into another aspect that gets rather confusing.

When I worked with jukeboxes, generally it was the operator, not the location, that paid the fees, and those fees were often bundled with the service contract from the distributer.  The location itself generally got a cut from the coinbox (and credit card) revenue minus the appropriate charges.

One problem we are probably runing into here is that a fee which was mostly invisible to end locations (or the location was too small to attract notice) is starting to be delt with explicitly due to breaking away from the distributer->operator->location model.  Here is where my sympathy is a bit strained since it is not a case of a new fee, but one they either avoided or had someone else take care of for them, thus they feel that they should not have to pay it because they never did in the past.

I have heard similiar complaints from DYI construction, since permits (and insurance) were generally either handled by the contractor or they stayed under the radar, but that is slowly changing as inspectors become more aware of all the projects that are skipping the process.

Heh.  Though something I should point out.  While I am arguing from the ASCAP's side, I am actually quite against these royalties.  I am, however, strongly in favor of consistancy and uniform application of rules.  I would prefer that all cases be dropped, but I am not in favor of video games like this being exempt because they are 'interactive'.  It it too similiar to the arguments for why games need to be treated differntly in other areas of the law.

----


Meh public performance is out moded and silly IMO tax data devices and the net 10% a pop and divvy it up 5% main artist org,3% CP conglomerates and 2% to run it and enforce it, when thats done we wont need to waste time and money nitpicking about taxes on blank media(and it and hardware is is hit with the 10% tax) public performance and a few other things.



And it dose not help when inspectors pass bad work because they are cousins.... our house was messed up(the one we lost due to sewer flooding in 98ish)......



The devil is in the details its not the music that is drawing people its the interaction same can be said for jukeboxes I guess....public interaction instead of interaction with the box......hey are strip clubs with private boxes taxed? :P





Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Well the media mafia needs thier cut to stay in power so they can get more money from everyone....


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

And people wonder why I say make non profit based copy right distrobusion  legal..the indutry will nitpick and harass the public to death draw the line and back off.

side rant aside this is rather silly the CP owners have been paid for the work in question whats with this double diping and why is it still legal for them to do thigns the same as 100+ years ago?


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Your non-profit theory doesn't fit here, as it's an arcade machine, meaning people pay to play it, meaning this guy is profiting off the use of the music.  This doesn't constitute piracy, though, as ASCAP is already paid for the use of these machines by Activision, as you point out, so this will most likely just go away.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Side rant is side rant  *yawns*

:P

But really in what instance dose asshat...er... ASCAP is needed? Its more like bullying measure to squeeze more profit out of all the wrong places.

Seriously have they targeted the dance dance machines yet?


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

ASCAP, as I understand it, is the music and book writers version of SAG, which is part of the reason I don't understand this at all.  Their clients - in this case, musicians - are already paid for the use of the machine in public settings.  Not to mention, I'm sure this isn't the only bar in America to have a Guitar Hero machine.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Once again, you understand wrong. SAG and AFTRA are like unions. ASCAP isn't at all like a union. It's a collection agency. It collects and distributes royalties for its members.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Royalties those members have already received for this particular game, which is why I'm pretty sure this will go away.

And thanks for the clarification.

---

You KILL Vampires. You don't DATE them.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Well no, the members have not recieved their full royalties, that is kinda the point.

If you, say, hire a contractor and they require a payment of 'flat fee X + time fee Y', you do not get to say 'but I payed you X! why should you get Y?'

Part of the reason for this split fee is to handle public vs private uses of the game.  This way people who buy the machines (or game) for thier own private consumption only pay for that service, while people who want the machine (or game) for a public venue which has one-off benifits, they pay an additional fee since they are using it differntly.

This is why if you buy a DVD it might be $15, but if you want to play a movie at a theater, the same digital data will run you thousands or more.

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

Well no, the members have not recieved their full royalties, that is kinda the point.

If you, say, hire a contractor and they require a payment of 'flat fee X + time fee Y', you do not get to say 'but I payed you X! why should you get Y?'

Part of the reason for this split fee is to handle public vs private uses of the game.  This way people who buy the machines (or game) for thier own private consumption only pay for that service, while people who want the machine (or game) for a public venue which has one-off benifits, they pay an additional fee since they are using it differntly.

This is why if you buy a DVD it might be $15, but if you want to play a movie at a theater, the same digital data will run you thousands or more.

----


Yes but one is meant to be background noise to a bar setting and the other direct entertainment.... there is a difference thats white washed and over looked .... we'd be better off taxing(10%) the net and any and all data storage devices(from disc writers to flash to magnet driven data storage,ect ) , the main artist group gets 5%, CP conglomerates get 3% and the final 2% goes to operation and enforcement, FYI the current tax on blank media would be dropped of course.


Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

translation GIVE US MONEY FOR DOING NOTHING ... NOW

Re: ASCAP Seeks Licensing Fee from Guitar Hero Arcade ...

You can't be serious. 

---

I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"

I once had a dream about God. In it, he was looking down upon the planet and the havoc we recked and he said unto us, "Damn Kids get off my lawn!"
 
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Andrew EisenNow, having said that, what sites are you reading that are claiming that if "you self-identify as a Gamer, you're immediately the problem" or that gamers are "obligated to stop harassment"? Or was that hyperbole too?09/21/2014 - 1:03am
Andrew EisenFirst of all, ONE person in the Shout box suggested an obligation to call harassers out on their harassing but only after YOU brought it up. Plus, Techno said "when you see it happening." If you don't see it, you're not under any obligation.09/21/2014 - 1:02am
Sleaker@Craig R. - at this point I don't even know what the hashtags are suppsed to be in support of. what does GamerGate actually signify.09/21/2014 - 12:21am
Sleaker@AE - Hyperbole for the first 2, but it seems like some of the comments in the shout are attempting to place blame on fellow gamers because they aren't actively telling people to stop harassing even though they don't necessarily know anyone that has.09/21/2014 - 12:16am
Andrew EisenSleaker - Who the heck are you reading that is claiming "all gamers are bad," we "need to pass laws or judgement on all gamers," that if "you self-identify as a Gamer, you're immediately the problem," or that gamers are "obligated to stop harassment"?09/20/2014 - 9:44pm
erthwjimhe swatted more than just krebs, I think he swatted 30 people http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/05/teen-arrested-for-30-swattings-bomb-threats/09/20/2014 - 9:31pm
 

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