As any reader of this website knows full well, videogames and religion tend to mix like oil and water.
Every few weeks, it seems, a story pops up about a religious group expressing dismay or anger over a videogame. The latest such tale revolved around a Maine Christian group calling for a Modern Warfare 2 ban.
The constant collision of these topics caused a Bitmob contributor to pen a column asking whether or not games and religion are mortal enemies.
Mike Gingras writes from the viewpoint of a religious gamer, noting that players are constantly breaking the Ten Commandments in-game, but he takes a broadminded approach to it all:
My argument is that games, like any art, are a means of authorial expression and participant reaction. In a game, a person can safely dabble in behavior or thoughts that they may not necessarily agree with.
He continues:
As a gamer and a religious person, I believe that virtual worlds with unfixed consequences are a safe way to learn about your own beliefs and values. I remain unconvinced that playing a video game where you can wrestle with your own personal sense of right and wrong is a bad thing.
Gingras ends with the question, “So, which is it? Is gaming a hobby that people of all faiths can enjoy? Or is it something that the faithful should stay away from?”
Comments
Re: On Games and Religion
Ummm in my bible it says something about How God will spit thee out of His mouth for practicing sexual pleasure w/the same sex. It goes something like that, Im not entirely quoting the text.
Hell, Jesus wouldn't have any apostles if he said "no sinners allowed". You like the bible? Read it.
I know about this & how Jesus did sit w/sinners & the priests asked Him why He (Jesus) was sitting w/the sinners or when Jesus sat w/the tax collectors that everyone hated. I know. I do read my bible. It is good you are defending you church. I am defending my religion & what I believe.
Heck, homosexuality isn't even a priority for the catholic church compared to other things.
I can understand this, it is not a priority, but it is on the list. :) What religion are you?
"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry
Re: On Games and Religion
I'm catholic. Let me explain the priority thing. We all have things we believe are wrong. But does the church have some mission to make everyone straight by force? Do we see homosexuality as an especially terrible that makes you completely evil? Of course not. That would be stupid. And it's not like we can't be friends with guys who are gay. We all have friends who may have a different moral belief system. Catholics are no different. Seriously, I get driven mad by the catholic stereotype that we're really strict or something. Honestly, there are plenty of protestant denominations that are worse than us. Those are the guys Vald should be pissed at.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: On Games and Religion
"That's exactly what's wrong with your religion. That mentality that you HAVE to teach others about your faith, because your faith is SO much better than any other faith, or lack thereof."
That's not just religion, that is all ideology. Hell, that's any idea, scientific theory, etc. There are always those within one of those that try to get people to see there way. If you don't like religon for trying to spread whatever word that is trying to be spread, then you have to dislike all ideas, theorys, etc., including atheism.
"If you start to "teach" me about God or Jesus in real life, you should be ready for a particularly harsh reaction to it. I've ended friendships with people because they got too preachy around me, and that was letting them down easy. If a stranger walks up to me and starts talking his religious bullshit to me, he will recieve a big middle finger and a "Shut the Fuck up and get away from me."
That hardly seems fair. Everyone "preaches" their own belief. As for the stranger, if one comes up and tries to talk to anyone about whatever belief it is (religous or otherwise) at random, of course you have the right to be upset.
"I have, in the past, been followed, stalked, if you will by agressive evangelicals. If they continue to harass me after I've expressed the fact that they are unwelcome, they'll recieve warnings up until the point where I feel threatened. At that point, they will be hurt.
I've actually had an incendent like that happen, when, after repeated attempts to "teach" me resulted in Religious Harassment. I began to feel threatened, and when I started to call the cops, he tried to grab my phone from me. It was at that point I knocked him on his ass, and he lost a few teeth. The best part of this story was that after all was said and done, and all accounts taken by the police, they sided with me."
I have to say, I'm sided with you on this issue. You were justified.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: On Games and Religion
"That hardly seems fair. Everyone "preaches" their own belief. As for the stranger, if one comes up and tries to talk to anyone about whatever belief it is (religous or otherwise) at random, of course you have the right to be upset."
There's a difference between Preaching and expressing a belief. If I make it clear I don't want to be Preached to, and you continue to try to "teach me about jesus" there's going to be trouble. I told my friends that they shouldn't try to prostlytize and evangelize to me, and they ignored that. Therefore, I had no need of them as friends anymore. I'm fiercely loyal to my friends, up until it's no longer enjoyable for me to be around them. When one of them becomes an idiot evangelist, it's time for them to go.
Re: On Games and Religion
Actually, they are the same. Expressing your belief (or preaching, or whatever you want to call it) is all about time and place. If an atheist preaches to me at random in the street, I'll get upset. If it happens in some place where it is expected or normal, I'll have no issue and enjoy a good conversation (assuming the guy isn't just their to scoff at religon as stupid and his belief as smarter, a.k.a. smarter-than-thou)
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: On Games and Religion
And the point of putting your beliefs out there like that is what?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: On Games and Religion
@ Gellymatos
Same as what you have been telling Vald. But that part of my belief what I said was meant to mean that you are telling Vald about religion & your beliefs & he doesn't like it. Therefore, I was stating what I said that in my bible, it is taught to me that we are supposed to teach people about religion. But if that person doesn't want to be taught about religion or doesn't want nothing to do w/it, then just leave them alone. I can't change them but I did put that seed in their head. Then I move on. I don't know if you are religious, but you sure are defending it pretty well. :)
"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry
Re: On Games and Religion
No, SSB, he's not defending it well. He's just proving to me everything that I already knew about the Catholic Church and it's hate and bigotry.
Re: On Games and Religion
He's doing a good job of standing his ground. (Gellymatos). But your animosity is towards the Catholic church. There you go again w/the Catholic church. Do something about it! Talk to the Catholic church about it.
"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry
Re: On Games and Religion
He can't. From how he's told it, everyone of any ideology where he lives, including catholics, seem to be ideologically intolerant. I believe him. Even his own family members seem to be like him, except christian.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: On Games and Religion
True. But there is still an unanswered question that he makes against the Catholic church. He doesn't like for many reasons. Hell, I don't like Catholicism b/c of so many loopholes that they have. Half the crap they (Catholics) believe I don't agree with. I believe in my religion. But right now he has his head shoved so far up his a** he can't seem to think straight about anything, except for being a negative & pessimistic person.
"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry
Re: On Games and Religion
Ok, I'll bite. What loopholes? While I don't like Vald's false accusations, I don't like us being attached to the phrase "loophole" either. What are you getting at?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: On Games and Religion
"If I had your attitude for every atheist who tried to force their belief on me, I'd would look like one of those religous idiots."
I've never once forced my belief on you. The core of my comments are for people like you to keep your beliefs and morality to yourselfs and to STOP forcing them on me.
I've even made it clear that "you can go ahead and waste your life however you want." If that's not the exact opposite of "Forcing" my beliefs on you, I don't know what is.
While I'm not exactly nice about it, and am more than willing to express my opinion that I think religion is stupid, and probably does more harm than good in this world, I'm very, VERY careful about telling people that they shouldn't practice it. Like I said, if you want to believe in some Imaginary Friend who you can mutter to when you need something, be my guest. Just don't expect me to follow you, and don't tell me how to behave, because thats how your imaginary friend wants it.
Re: On Games and Religion
By classifying relgion as "wasting your life" you are pretty much saying "your beliefs are wrong and you are stupid for having them; my beliefs are the ones that are right and are what make me intelligent"... you are telling them what is wrong and what is right... so ya, when you insult others and show such intolerance for their beliefs you are in a way forcing your beliefs upon others...
Re: On Games and Religion
Ahh, but I never tell them they can't practise it, and I never try to force my morality on them. Besides, you think that I should feel bad that I am being insulting. I've always been an unapologetic dick, and if someone is offended by my opinons, too bad.
Re: On Games and Religion
So tell me precisely why we should respect you and anything you represent, instead of deleting every boorish comment you make and blocking you from the site?
Because really, if you're being insulting just for the sake of being insulting, which appears to be your objective here, you're no better than any forum troll in existence. Or Jack Thompson, for that matter.
-- Sometimes the truth is arrived at by adding all the little lies together and deducting them from the totality of what is known
Re: On Games and Religion
It could be the fact that I've been an active member of this site for quite a while, and I'm not the only one, on EITHER side of this argument who makes these kinds of comments. It could also be the fact that most people, even Gellymatos, know that I'm an alright person, when I'm not debating something I'm passionate about. It could also be that I'm not one to hold a grudge, and, assuming that these people don't hate my guts (yet), I'd be perfectly willing to chill with them after an argument like this?
My words are harsh, but short lived. I've already stated this in some other thread, somewhere, lost to history.
Re: On Games and Religion
Oh, ok. It's fine because you're really a nice person when you're not actually talking, and because you're not the only one who is insulting.
Go back to being nice, then. The grownups would like to maintain an intelligent and meaningful debate.
-- Sometimes the truth is arrived at by adding all the little lies together and deducting them from the totality of what is known
Re: On Games and Religion
Hahah.. Good one. I've already said that my opinons are my opinions, and will freely admit that my harsh opinons of certain people may very well be a character flaw of mine. I will not, however, be told to shut up, just because my words might sting more than yours.
Re: On Games and Religion
Then allow me to proffer this example:
A member of this site, with no prior experience in speaking with you, comes here in the hope of finding a reasoned, rational debate. Instead, said member finds a perfect and rather long example of argument by insult, founded upon a "reasoned" basis which, as you yourself admitted, cannot be proven.
Given this, one might be tempted to classify you as an unintelligent boor. After all, you're exhibiting many of the traits one comes to expect from such a species: Insulting behavior, continued argument from opinion, and the belief that reiteration is the key to argument (which, in truly logical creatures, is actually the case. Nonetheless, humans are anything but truly logical, and re-iteration in a human is typically taken as the definition of insanity).
Now: Given what I've read of your comments so far, I'm tempted to believe you're actually an intelligent person. Certainly intelligent enough to be capable of recognizing the importance of respect to a reasonable and productive conversation.
Therefore, I'm forced to conclude that you are, in point of fact, not interested in a reasonable and productive conversation. Since this is the case, what, pray tell, makes you different from the Christians you're merrily insulting?
Alternately, if there's a fallacy in my logic, please enlighten me.
-- Sometimes the truth is arrived at by adding all the little lies together and deducting them from the totality of what is known
Re: On Games and Religion
I will admit, this comment made me laugh. I don't think I've ever been read so accurately, before.
You were very, very close. I am interested in a resonable and productive conversation, for the most part, but I like to have my fun, as well. In fact, I enjoy not only the battle of facts, reason, and logic, but also the battle of wits. I enjoy slinging stinging jabs almost as much as I enjoy recieving them.
Therefore, in order to prevent a reasoned, logical debate from becoming TOO boring, and too much like school or work, the very thing I am here to avoid, I will often inject a bit of "spice" to my logical arguments. I will admit that today, I may have been a little harsher than I normally am, I've been a little edgy today, annoyed at some phantom issue that I can't quite put my finger on.
I usually try to keep things more civil than this, while preventing the flame of empassioned debate from dying completely. I may very well have added too much fuel to the fire today.
Re: On Games and Religion
This is the exact type of irony that everyone is talking about!!! How can you complain about offensive christians when you yourself act offensive. You can't even say the christian belief is wrong with some sort of respect or without insulting us. It's not that you don't believe in what I do, it is that you have to be offensive when you do it. I would like to continue, but before I do, what do you define as "forcing"? Oh, and I never said YOU were trying to force me, just that many have tried.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: On Games and Religion
Frankly, I'd be more respectful, more often, but I'm bored, and respectful conversation is boring. On top of that, no matter how many facts and evidence and logic I put forward, you religious people just put your blinders on and respond with the equivalent of "Nuh UH! I'm right, no matter what!"
Re: On Games and Religion
Didn't know boredom was an excuse to act with intolerence. Please name said facts and logic. You have none, at least in the posts for this article. All you seem to do is insult religion. That's it. And I I have already told you his in past debates with you: Morality arguments are often pointless because there is no universal logic to support either. Both may have logical points, but there is often no point that smites the other entirely.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: On Games and Religion
"Morality arguments are often pointless because there is no universal logic to support either. Both may have logical points, but there is often no point that smites the other entirely."
I agree here, there is no reconciling our two moralities together. The thing that you fail to realize is that you can let me live by my morality, and you can live by your morality. You don't have to attempt to push your morality on me. (You meaning not "You" specifically, but theoretically.)
Remember our previous conversation? Where you refused to "Debate the morality" of homosexuality, when I was just trying to get you to admit that trying to get laws passed to enforce your morality on others was wrong?
Re: On Games and Religion
Oh, please. Not that again. I do remember the arguement. You kept bringing your own moral opinion on the subject as logic, which, as I said, doesn't make for logic. I didn't bring my faith (short of treating others as I would like to be treated) into it. Why the heck couldn't you? Love, even though we both probably believe in some form of it, isn't an argument. And I shall repeat the part about law, specifically the U.S. Constitution. That document covers a lot of bases. Also, it is not a neutral document. It does cover moral issues. Actually, the whole thing covers what is right and what is wrong according to the law. But what about what isn't covered, or what might still be wrong. That is where law comes in. Everyone has the right to try to make their beliefs into law, so long as it doesn't contradict the Bill of Rights. That is what legal debates are about. Deciding what morality ends up into law. Even amendments (that aren't in the Bill of Rights) are changed. That is politics. That is also why gaming isn't banned. A law doing so contradicts the Bill of Rights. What annoyed me is you can't seem to grasp the concept. What also buged me is that you can't give the catholic church some credit. I mean, we don't hate gays or those who differ from us. That is an established rule of our faith. No hate.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: On Games and Religion
You keep asking me to define "Forcing religion on others."
The fact that you STILL think it's perfectly fine to legislate your own personal morality on OTHERS who don't share it is the definition.
You think its A-OK for your church, or similar churches, to turn thier bigoted morality into law, and to punish those of us who don't follow it.
The fact that you are perfectly fine with that just means you'll never understand what "Forcing your religion" on others is.
Re: On Games and Religion
I actually did respond to it. Check a bit above this current post. It's rather large with a pic, you can't miss it. There are a couple reasons why I asked to define "forcing beliefs". You did answer, and I got the answer I expected. Oh, and would you please stop using the word bigoted. It's annoying when someone calls my faith bigoted when we are not and then shows nothing but intolerance to others in the first place. Anyway, like I said, check the above post. Also, let's continue this there.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: On Games and Religion
Until your faith accepts that Gay people are just as good and moral as anyone else, your faith is bigoted. I'm sorry I annoy you by speaking the truth.
Re: On Games and Religion
I never said gay people can't be good. Neither does my faith. We just think it is wrong. However, doing something wrong (assuming it is wrong) doesn't make you "bad" or "evil". And thinking someone is evil doesn't mean that you are bigoted. And "truth" is one of those words that annoys me. To one person, something is truth. For another, it is not. What makes something true, just the fact you think it is so? Just because it is your belief?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: On Games and Religion
Catholicism actually does not comment upon the morality / quantity of good (horrid relative term) within a subject. If anything, a person of Catholic faith is required to pity a homosexual individual and pray for their god to forgive the person's sins, whatever they may be.
Re: On Games and Religion
You may not agree, but I see that as bigotry, as well. It's tough to put into clear terms, but to be "Pityed" to me, implies that they think I'm not as good as they are, just because I don't believe what they do, and don't practise the same morals. They are treating me in a negative way, just because I am different than them. Sounds like bigotry to me.
That being said, that might be the Catholic Church's "official" stance, but it certainly isn't practised by many of it's leaders, nor the majority of it's members. Considering the amount of Gay-hate that was spread by the Catholics I grew up with, and seeing the anger and hatred in the people of the church, I'd almost prefer they just secretely felt sorry for us, despite the fact that that's plenty bad as it is.
Re: On Games and Religion
The problem lies not within the Catholic faith itself in this case but with those within the Catholic church that are bigots. In truth, as they do not follow the position of the Catholic church, Catholic may not be the best definition for their faith yet they are allowed to identify themselves as it. This makes it difficult to form a stance against "Catholics" as the term, in common usage, does not represent the actual tenants of the Catholic faith.
As per bigotry, there is an inherent problem where both yourself and the extremist end "Catholics" could be seen as bigots. The definition of bigot is "A person obstinately and intolerantly devoted to his/her own opinions and prejudices."
I should also clarify my statement on what they pity. Catholicism is an apologist religion. They feel sad for the acts of homosexuality not for the people that perform them. They pray for the people in order to attempt to reconcile these perceived sins. It's the same way that you or I may not condone theft. While I personally feel awkward about this standpoint, I just felt that I should clarify.
Re: On Games and Religion
Thanks Talouin. Vald, to pity is not an act of superiority. Your personal experience with those of our faith who stray do not represent all of us.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: On Games and Religion
To me, to Pity IS an act of superiority. If I feel Pity for someone, it's because I feel like I am in a better place than they are, and that they are worse off than I am. That is inherently an act of superiority. I don't want to be pitied by ANYONE, especially when I am living a lifestyle that should, by any account, make me thier equals. By pitying me for my lifestyle, they are inherently saying: "I feel sorry for him, because my lifestyle is better and more moral, therefore I am superior to him."
It's an arrogant, and rude gesture, in my opinon.
Re: On Games and Religion
Pity isn't an act of superiority. Do you have some sort of problem with definitions or something?
Pity: 1 a : sympathetic sorrow for one suffering, distressed, or unhappy b : capacity to feel pity
2 : something to be regretted <it's a pity you can't go>.
As you can see, neither have anything to do with superiority. As to the church and pity, I think
Taoulin was refering to the second definition.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: On Games and Religion
Thats the same excuse someone would use if they said they pitied black people. If you correctly read between the lines, its an inherently offensive, ignorant, and incredibly racist statement to make. It's the same way when you say the church Pities Gay people. It's incredibly offensive.
Re: On Games and Religion
Even in that case, their pity was due to a belief that black people were lesser. This belief was defeated, therefore the pity was not deserved. Remember that racism is one of the few ideologies that actually can be defeated by logic. That pity only involved superiority because the belief behind it did.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: On Games and Religion
What the FUCK is the difference between Homophobia and Racism?! Restricting ONE Minority's rights because of who they are is somehow acceptable, when restricting another minority's rights is not? What the hell is wrong with you?
Re: On Games and Religion
talking to you has been like talking to a brick wall, no matter how many facts and evidence and logic we put forward, you militant athetist people just put your blinders on and respond with the equivalent of "Nuh UH! I'm right, no matter what!"
the irony behind the militant atheist is hilarious...
Re: On Games and Religion
What facts, evidence, and logic have any of you put forward, short of calling me an asshole? Let me add, by the way, that I freely admit this is true.
Nobody's said anything about my arguments, aside from the equivalent of "Hey, Val! Stop being such a dick!"
Granted, I have been relatively insulting, today.. Perhaps its something in the water at work, but I've been relatively annoyed at how religious folks have handled themselves, lately, and I will admit I've been a bit harsher than normal today, because of it.
I know none of YOU, personally, have done anything to wrong me, and the vast majority of what I say is directed at the greater institution of Religion, in general. None of you are bad people. In fact, I enjoy the fact that you guys help me pass time while I'm at work.
However, sometimes, my opinions are my opinions, and I've already stated that I think it's stupid to believe in God, and I think that anyone who does is not thinking critically, but rather being willfully ignorant. If that makes me a dick, it makes me a dick. I'll will make it clear, however, that not ALL religious people are bad people, and Religion, itself, is not necessarily a catalyst in making a bad person.
Re: On Games and Religion
And where, in the process of thinking critically, have you found evidence that God doesn't exist?
I'm not talking about the specific god of the Christians, the Muslims, the Flying Spaghetti Monster church, or any other specific god. Those are easy to disprove.
Where, specifically, with evidence, can you point to as proving that there doesn't exist a superior being who created the universe?
-- Sometimes the truth is arrived at by adding all the little lies together and deducting them from the totality of what is known
Re: On Games and Religion
I've already stated that it can't be proven. It's kind of hard to gather physical evidence on something that doesn't exist.
Given my experiences, in my life, the thought exercises I've performed, and the linkage of fallicies inside each and every religion to thier belief that thier deities are infalliable, I've come to the conclusion that no such power exists. If something were to come along that would force me to alter that hypothesis, I would gladly alter it, and explore the avenues opened with the new information, like anyone with an logical, inquisitive mind would do.
Re: On Games and Religion
You are both falling into a logical fallacy here... you're both making an argument from ignorance aka the negative proof fallacy. One can only state that there is currently no valid evidence supporting the existence of a god and that we cannot currently collect evidence to support a positive lack of existence.
Re: On Games and Religion
Sometimes, I think Peter wants to start flame wars...
That said, I'll just get started.
Religions are full of crap, anyways. As long as you aren't forcing your fake morality on me and MY games, you can go ahead and waste your life however you want.
The MOMENT that I feel I've been put upon by someone due to thier faith, whether that be them talking to me about it, or trying to enforce thier fake biblical morality in my games, or telling who I can or can't have in my own private bedroom, they are asking for trouble.
Until those Holier-Than-Thou morality types learn that they need to butt out, STFU, and leave those who don't follow the same morals alone, there will always be conflict. This goes for games, as well. Frankly, if you think a game is Immoral, and doesn't mesh with your religion, don't play it. If you think running people over in GTA is wrong, don't do it. If you think that your fake "God" will send you to hell because you set eyes Laura Croft's butt, don't look. If you enjoy all of those things, and more, keep playing, and keep your religious opinions to yourself.
Re: On Games and Religion
Lol Val you cease to amaze me w/your humor on here. Which is rare for me reading your posts. Anyways, when you "The MOMENT that I feel I've been put upon by someone due to thier faith, whether that be them talking to me about it...."
Basically you don't want no one to talk about any or every kind of religion out there to you. That's pretty much what you are saying b/c it sounds like the rest of your day will just be a bad day. LMAO!
"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry
Re: On Games and Religion
I'm glad you are amused by my humor, I guess..
As far as my comments, I didn't mean ANY time you talk about religion, but any time I feel put upon by your talking about religion. For me, that means if you start telling me that if I don't follow your religion, I'm going to hell, or that my choice of lifestyle is wrong, because of your religion. Those sorts of things. Debating the merits of religion, as far as my opinons that God is fake, and your opinon that he's real, and that sort of thing is fine. As soon as you cross from expressing your opinon about your religion to trying to get me to convert, or trying to get me to stop being who I am is where you cross the line.
As far as I'm concerned, I've not crossed that line once in this debate. I've never told someone that they should stop worshiping, I've never told someone to stop living the way they are, and I've never told someone to stop believing in God. I've debated his existance, and expressed my opinion that Religion is a stupid, stupid entity, and, yes, I've even said that I think people who practise religion have some sort of logical disconnect, an inherent "Stupidity", if you will, but I've also been clear that as long as you don't push it on me, you can worship what you want. I'll just continue to think it's stupid.
Re: On Games and Religion
I see your humor as being like this: "I'm getting MAD at you for telling me about religion! Shut up about religion! It's stupid!" & then that's when shit hits the fan. The reason why I find you humorous is b/c anything that is talked about religion on here, you always say your same debate over & over to the religious community on here & including myself. Now I don't read all of yall's posts, b/c well they are too long & I can read better things w/my time. *sigh* But I also think gellymatos & you (Vald) are funny in this debate b/c in my head when I read some of yall's posts I see two cartoon characters or stick figures shouting at each other or both of you in a presidential debate about religion when in my head in my world, there is no presidential debate. But just arguing about non-religion & religion. I know it doesn't make sense to yall, but to me it does, in my head. LMAO.
When you say put upon by religion, do you mean me or anyone else talking to you about God & Jesus? Or do you mean when I talk about how God & Jesus are in my life & I believe in them? Or do you mean when I tell you that you should really accept God & Jesus in your life? B/c I can take that statement in those 3 ways.
So what if it was anything else about life? Or what was going on in life that anyone talked to you about other than religion? How would you take it? Or if someone was giving their advice to you?
But I know you have debated God's existence & so has everyone else. Which is fine. But if you think people have a logical disconnect then wouldn't that mean that you & everyone else does too that doesn't believe? B/c when you say that it is stupidity you are making fun of or tell another believer it is stupid. Which then it would sound like you are crossing the line on the believers when you say that comment to them or myself. So as long as you debate & say your opinions instead of making fun of or telling a person that it is stupidity upon them to believe in a higher power, then stating your opinions are fine by me. But saying someone is logically disconnected that is wrong. It is their beliefs that you are critisizing. I don't think it is right for the believers to call you stupid either. B/c everyone believes diff things. All I can is that not me or gellymatos or anyone else will change your opinion unless you change that opinion of what you believe. Only you can, no one else.
I am by no means going to change you, but will state my opinions. Like I have in my previous religious posts. & I don't want to go back over them w/you or anyone else, b/c it sounds like it would be a lost cause w/you on that debate. I say that b/c its good you are standing by what you say. Just like gellymatos & me & others are standing by what we say. But if you imply I am stupid about believing in my religions then that is wrong of you. Hopefully you wouldn't.
"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry
Re: On Games and Religion
Please tell me i'm not the only one seeing the irony just dripping off of his words. We'll have a ironic ocean if all of your comments are like this, Valdearg.
I mean, seriously, you say you want Christians lo leave you alone, and I can dig that. You could have left your statemet at half it's size, and all would be reasonably well.
But then you spend the second half-two/thirds of your paragraph talking about how stupid christians are. Really?
Even more ironic, the guy featured in this article is actually open-minded about this all, making these sort of comments even less warranted.
Re: On Games and Religion
I don't believe I actually used the word "Stupid." But that's ok, you can lie all you want.
Frankly, I'm a bit bitter. I've felt victimized by religion constantly. The constant Prostlytizing and Bible-Thumping and Moralizing is starting to get to me. I've got no problem expressing my beliefs about your religion, much like many people have no problem expressing thiers about my lack thereof.
Frankly, despite the fact that I called your relgion "fake", much like people like you are so willing to tell me my beliefs are wrong, and told you all to back off and keep your morality to yourself, I haven't really attacked anyone personally. (At least in this thread.)
We can change that, if you want?