A letter to the editor of the Sydney Morning Herald argues that the lack of an R18+ rating category is not withholding anything other than “graphic gore” from Australian gamers.
The letter, written by Caleb Owens of Woollahra (thanks Kotaku) may invoke memories of the old videogames as art debate. The author writes, “There are no great works of video game art being held back [by a lack of an R18+ rating category].”
Owens continues, noting that when Australian gamers complain about edited games on Internet forums, they refer to the bloody body parts they might be missing, while when these same gamers complain about censorship to authorities, they tend to be less effusive, instead preferring to couch their protests in a broad “right to enjoy content” context.
Owens finishes his letter with:
It takes a great work of art to advance a ratings scale. When the Lady Chatterley's Lover of video games arrives, all citizens will be rightly concerned if it is withheld. But that seems a long way off.
The full letter can be found about halfway down this page on the Sydney Morning Herald Website.
Comments
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
I often feel that most people who work in newspapers like the Herald, the sun and so many other tabloid papers are often writing this junk because there is no other thing to write about.
If there was a riot against a different race, like the Race Riots that happened in Sydney at Crunella beach in 2005, most newspapers were claiming that multicultral society does not work and some were writing in about how Australia should stop supporting immagration and refugees from coming into the country thinking that they would stop the racial violence amongst different communities.
One thing I know from reading the newspapers, is that there is little to do with any maturity written in them yet the people who write these newspaper articles expect us to believe them.
On a point of note, it is important to know who is writing this article, and where their views come from, if they are saying that videogames lack maturity, one has to question where they are getting their points from and start analyzing if what they are saying is it from a lack of their own investigation and have they played enough games with evidence of maturity in them?
One thing I feel about newspapers is that the people who write them are selective listeners, they only care about selling the news and they don't bother for the truth unless if the truth makes news itself.
for example, when Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was released or when the Pokemon games were big, all the newspapers were talking about were about how videogames were turning kids into little monsters who killed people based on the videogames they play.
When Super Mario Galaxy was released in 2007, all the newspapers were talking about was about game addiction and also the dangers of playing games on the internet with strangers.
Seems to me that most newspapers are only interested in selling stories that get parents into it, and perhaps scaring parents is one thing that newspapers have been making their money for allot of the time.
Remember, some people are selective listeners, they only listen to what they want to hear, and everything else they ignore.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Agreed,i think that alot of of newpaper article writing involving grab onto the fears of its audience and using those fears to exaggerate the problems associated with a potential social issue to make a story that sells.
Of course, to do this there needs to be some biased filtering of information. Who'd want to read an article about Super Mario Galaxy being adored by gamers, when they could read an article about GTAIV being blamed for the latest massacre?
An article about the latter would sell more because the idea of a game causing a real life massacre sounds more important and relevent because it is made to sound like an issue that concerns parents. Likewise there is no issue in a large number of gamers enjoying a cute harmless game like Super Mario Galaxy. No Issue= No Story, No Story = No Sales.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
At first I thought this is the usual denunciation of graphic violence, yet this is especially untrue for Australia: "Dead Rising" for expample has been banned in Germany due to its gory content but actually received an MA15+ in Australia. The only thing censored in the European AND Australien versions have been images of nudity.
The German game "Risen" on the other hand has been given a RC, because of the integration of prostitution and drugs. Maybe "Risen" is this "Lady Chatterley's Lover" of gaming ;-)
Greetings from Austria,
humanity +love
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Just to clarify the ridiculousness of the ratings discrepancies:
The MA15+ "Dead Rising" is one of the dozen or so games that are truly banned from sale in Germany (as opposed to the usual "same as porn, but effectively banned by making sales economically infeasible"), and may not be sold at all, not as a matter of protection of the youth, but because of a provision of criminal law, making the effective rating "unsuitable for anyone, not even adults".
Whereas the RC "Risen" carries a German rating of "suitable for ages 12 and above".
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Indeed, Art is quite subjective. Any 'mature' person would know that.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
The SMH fortunately published a couple of answers :
http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/abbotts-faith-in-goodwill-exceeds... (scroll down to "Games can be an ethical challenge")
http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/mens-dress-code-reeks-of-sexism-n... (scroll down to "Video Nasties". I like it less, though)
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Well I can agree to the Video Nasties one in one way. If the lack of an 18+ rating is letting stuff thats rated M here in the US be sold to younger teenagers(Which would get people fired and sued here.) Then just WHY are the assholes against it?
Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Strangest definition of maturity I've ever seen. Because we demand mature content, that makes us immature? Isn't that a bit of a strawman?
I'm a 37-year old with 2 degrees, but obviously, my leisure acitivites are far more important than anything else. It's that with infuriates me more than anything else.
I.Am.Not.A.Gamer.
I am someone with a high level of qualification and a responsible job who plays games for leisure, the level of stereotyping and descrimination involved in creating a group called gamers and then assigning a stereotypical behaviour to all of them is no different in concept to me turning round and saying "All Australians are rapists and thieves", yet one would be found insulting, the other is considered worthy of publishing. Double standards much?
Fact is, this is about games for people over 18's, which means this letter is targetted not at children, but at adults, quite frankly I have severe doubts about the intelligence or the maturity of the letters' author.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
I am someone with a high level of qualification and a responsible job who plays games for leisure, the level of stereotyping and descrimination involved in creating a group called gamers and then assigning a stereotypical behaviour to all of them is no different in concept to me turning round and saying "All Australians are rapists and thieves", yet one would be found insulting, the other is considered worthy of publishing. Double standards much?
Fact is, this is about games for people over 18's, which means this letter is targetted not at children, but at adults, quite frankly I have severe doubts about the intelligence or the maturity of the letters' author.
Yes, I concur with all of that :)
I also work in a technical job for a large corporation. I have a lot of responsibility on my shoulders and can certainly impact millions of dollars worth of production with my good or bad choices day to day. But, I shut cable off.. why?
Because I found a lot of the 'shows' out there now are an insult to my intelligence. I don't care to watch the drivel on television now. I find games, much much more mentally challenging and stimulating. Th art work - literally - in some games, rivals if not surpasses the 'motion pictures' out there. Keep in mind the 'accliams' that many modern movies, like Avatar recieve for 'special effects' are in fact generated by 3D randering systems that are the same 3D rendering systems used to develop most modern video games.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Hell, it was game technology that pushed modern computing power to where it is now.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
The way this letter is worded seems like it's straight from the pen of Micheal Atkinson.
Knowing people in Labor who've written to letters to the editor under pen names, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if this was someone in Atkinson's office.
After all, the only other "Caleb Owens" from Woollahra that comes up in google searches is someone whose mother was unfortunately killed by his brother.
Staffers tend to 'borrow' names and locations from other news stories...
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Particularly when you consider that Atkinson wrongly accused one person of not existing as his justification for creating the law that he recently had to revoke in humiliation. Maybe he gave himself an idea? ;)
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Sounds like a Nazi to me.
http://www.eliteownage.com/pwnage31337ad.html
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Notice how she doesn't actually give a reason why they should stay banned only that they're graphic content. So basically her argument is "we're not missing much". Because all the ethics surrounding censorship go away once the item is of low quality.
----------------------------------------------------
Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Great art is a term for scholars and critics. Whether a given work constitutes "great art" -- or indeed any other sort of art -- should have absolutely no bearing on its legality.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
“There are no great works of video game art"
Says who? You? How would you know?
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
But Australian movie goers aren't withheld from the very same exact content? The biggest issue doesn't seem to be so much that this content isn't allowed in games, it's that it is allowed in all other media. Your double standard is showing.
-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
What is a "mature game" for this people, anyways? They talk a lot about maturity isn´t equal to gore, but they don´t even know what that´s supposed to mean.
I´m agree that games are right know in their adolescense, but It´s better than they think.
My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
I will agree with one thing: most "gamers" are incredibly immature (not gamepolitics posters, of course :) ). Just go into any GameStop or read GameFAQs message boards or listen in on XBox Live chatter.
Also, while Mass Effect truly is a sophistocated Mature game, the marketing for it still caters to lower maturity levels. The "preorder from gamestop" ad even featured a toilet joke followed up with a narration by a surfer-dude adolescent voice. Other ads portrayed the game like it was nothing more than a mindless action game.
Oh, and Heavy Rain is going to bomb...hard.
Of course, at the end of the day, censorship is still a blight on humanity- and it shouldn't be tolerated for anything regardless of how "immature" the medium or audience is.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
The immature segment of a group is always the loudest. There are plenty of mature gamers who just don't draw attention to themselves.
Plus, gamers tend to be younger than most groups, so the immaturity factor should become less and less of an issue over time. Just imagine grandparents playing video games a few decades down the line. (Mainstream games, too, not just the casual stuff.)
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Wow all I can say is "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Just because this person who wrote a letter to the editor has had their opinion, now that opinion is to become axiomatic?
Ummmm NO.
Speaking as a classicly trained artist with a bachelors in fine art and another bachelors in 3D animation. My 3D art is in fact REALLY ART. What does it matter if my art is used in a game or not?
What I really think is that BECAUSE its used in "games" it meets your (insane) "hot button bias" and is dismissed by the author of the letter to the editor because of their bias.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Actually, in Australia I believe the axiom is "Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder."
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
LOL!!! I stand corrected!
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Oh gawd...look at popular media......its filled with "game like" crap, look at media of the past that we revere was more than likely scoffed at when it was created... fail...try again plz.......
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.
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http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Alternate Endings are becoming more and more popular - case in point.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Once again we're attempting to compare books (a medium which has no rating system of any kind) with one that does.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Folks, these are letters to the editor, not actual articles.
Only people who write LTTEs in australia are elderly folks or religious nuts who need some way to vent their outrage that people "don't think of the children".
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
heh, don't you mean venting outrage that not all people think exactly like them?
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
A letter to the editor? And not by an actual journalist or someone related to games/politics? I'm sorry, this person's opinion is important why?
"De minimus non curat lex"
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
Blood and Gore, to some degree, can improve a game when it comes to impact of an event. Many great works of art have blood or gore. Many movies are the same ie. Saving Private Ryan, The Godfather.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
"Most mention these days that the average age of gamers is quite high, but they do not mention that most of those gamers do not play ''mature'' games."
And the data you have to back that up is where?
"No game maker has yet created what an ordinary person might consider a mature game."
Not familiar with many games, are you? How about the Mass Effect games?
"All we miss out on is graphic gore."
Wrong. Many games banned in Australia were banned for sexual and/or drug content but not violence. Blitz: The League comes to mind. (http://gamepolitics.com/2007/01/24/blitz-banned)
Andrew Eisen
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
"Most mention these days that the average age of gamers is quite high, but they do not mention that most of those gamers do not play ''mature'' games."
And the data you have to back that up is where?
You're not thinking this through. It's obvious that they don't play "mature" games. How can they? The Australian government won't let them! :)
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
I play almost all 'mature' type of games. Some are based on Historical events - such as Rome: Total War - at least in concept.
Others like Ago of Conan are certainly 'mature' in nature. While in many "MMOs" - not all of the participants are actually mature - the theme of the game is. But then not everyone who watches a 'mature' movie or reads a 'mature' book is in fact, 'mature'.
Some even explicit sex type games.
"Chess" would be by most - considered a 'mature' game. As many have made not only a living with the game, but have became world-famous doing so, in addition there is a very highly strategic side to the game as well. Chess is in fact, also a video game.
Other games, like Civilization have strong strategic components/concepts behind them as well.
And Nudity in Tennis? Take a 'gander'... lol
EZK: Removed NSFW image
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
I was going to say, if any game should have cemented video games as an artistic medium, it should be Mass Effect.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
While I disagree with his conclusion that we should not care, I have to agree with the mechanics. The games that have not gotten a rating have genearlly been due to gore and such as opposed other reasons that might pull a more artsy concern.
Though the only reason he can site works like Lay Chatterly's Love is BECAUSE people pushed boundries and later considered it a great work. At the time it was considered without redeaming value and only restricted because of it's immature sexual content.
In short, the person is full of revisionist bullshit.
Re: Maturity an “Alien Concept to Video Gamers”
According to Webster's dictionary "Participate" is defined as:
1 : to possess some of the attributes of a person, thing, or quality
2 a : to take part
b : to have a part or share in something
By 'watching' the movie, you are; in fact 'sharing' in the experience the director and screen-writers wish to share through movie. So you are sharing in the experience, no? It would seem to me to be perfectly acceptable to say I "participated in the viewing of a movie" - as well as one could say "watched".
So yes, when you watch a violent movie such as "SAW" or similar, by the dictionary definition, you are in fact 'participating'.
But that's arguing semantics - there's really no difference between watching a movie and playing a game, if the content is pretty much the same. Just that in the video game you can control the actions. In 'watching' a movie, you are a willing spectator - and by spending your money to watch it, you must therefore approve of the content. At least that's the way the company who produced it will look at it - and make more.
He also states: "No game maker has yet created what an ordinary person might consider a mature game."
He's woefully mis-informed. There are in fact many 'mature' games out there. Depending on if you define that as 'adult content' or otherwise look at it as a game that has a solid, mature concept.
Phantasmagoria is a good example, actually. It's no where near 'new' either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasmagoria_%28video_game%29