Sony’s recent decision to remove the “Install Other OS” function from its PlayStation 3 console through a system update could entitle European PS3 owners to a refund.
Via Engadget we learn that a NeoGAF forumite invoked an obscure European consumer protection law to earn a refund from Amazon. Moderator “lapetus” cited the directive 1999/44/EC, a “a consumer protection law that requires goods to be ‘fit for the purpose which the consumer requires them and which was made known to the seller at the time of purchase.’”
While the clause cited above might seem to be in direct opposition to Sony’s user agreement, which allows it to “prevent access to unauthorized or pirated content, or use of unauthorized hardware or software in connection with the PS3 system,” “lapetus” earned himself an £84.00 (approximately $128.91 U.S.) refund from Amazon using the tactic.
Hacker George Hotz, who many think was responsible for Sony’s removal of the “Other OS” function due to his cracking of the PS3, has released a YouTube video showing his latest work, which allows the “Install Other OS” feature to run under the 3.21 firmware (Sony’s latest).
He also thanked Sony for the huge traffic spike to his blog and warned that, “… you are potentially turning 100000+ legit users into ‘hackers.’”
Comments
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
Sony and their attempts to save money on the PS3 -_-
Too bad the wrong people are paying for this.
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
Since when does an EULA/TOS take precendence over a law? Not only are they dubious legaleese in the first place, but they also usually contain text waiving any point conflicting with a law. Indeed, if Sony is allowed to go through with this, we'll be facing a very bad precedent...
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
It doesn't, the law of the land trumps the EULA.
If there is a law that states that a product must be able to provide an advertised feature, and the product has that feature disabled during it's lifetime, then the vendor is actionable.
And there is a lot more usage of this than piracy...
eg.
http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/195201/ps3_cluster_creates_home-made_ch...
And from the Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3
The PS3's hardware has also been used to build supercomputers for high-performance computing.[61]Fixstars Solutions sell a version of Yellow Dog Linux for the PlayStation 3 (originally sold by Terra Soft Solutions).[62]RapidMind produced a stream programming package for the PS3,[63] but were acquired by Intel in 2009. Also, on January 3, 2007, Dr. Frank Mueller, Associate Professor of Computer science at NCSU, clustered 8 PS3s. Mueller commented that the 256 MB of system RAM is a limitation for this particular application, and is considering attempting to retrofit more RAM. Software includes: Fedora Core 5 Linux ppc64, MPICH2, OpenMP v 2.5, GNU Compiler Collection and CellSDK 1.1.[64][65][66] As a more cost-effective alternative to conventional supercomputers, the U.S. military has purchased clusters of PS3 units for research purposes.[67] Retail PS3 Slim units cannot be used for supercomputing, because the PS3 Slim lacks the ability to boot into a third-party OS.
On March 22, 2007, SCE and Stanford University released the Folding@home project for the PlayStation 3.[68] This program allows PS3 owners to lend the computing power of their consoles to help study the physical process of protein folding.
You think mebbe Sony is cottoning on to the fact that their relatively low cost solution is in fact a lot more useful (and powerful) than they gave it credit for and they are closing the holes that allow people to use them, for example, as very cheap supercomputers..?
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
The majority of PS3 owners don't care...
It's a feature that only a tiny portion of PS3 users actually make use of. The only reason there's all this ruckus on the net about it is because that tiny portion also happens to be the type who frequent online forums / news site and like to loudly voice their displeasure on things.
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
So if I decided to start sytematically killing people with green eyes and red hair, it shouldn't matter if all the redhead and green eyed people start to complain because the majority of people won't be targeted by me? Is that right?
It doesn't matter how many people actually use the other OS feature, what matters is that it was part of the console that people bought. It was a feature that was advertised to get people to buy it. As GoodRobotUs has stated this sets a very bad precendence for console manufacturers. At this point it could be just a matter time before Sony starts removing other features such as Backwards compatability.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
First they came for the Jews,
and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists
and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me -
and by then there was no one left to speak out for me.
- Pastor Martin Niemöller.
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
Is that who said that, I was given that quote by a teacher while I was in germany but she couldnt tell me who said it.
~Weatherlight~
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
Don't use the feature still filled a FTC complaint ... taking away a feature off a product after I purchase the product especially when the feature was not only a listed feature but an advertised feature is imo inviolation of our consumer rights.
Frankly I won't update my box and the first game I buy that says you have to upgrade will be the day I buy no more ps3 games and start buying the xbox 360 version so win for microsoft in the long run.
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
If you plan to play any of them online (including your old titles) then you can go ahead and stop buying them.
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
Not true, you can still play online with 3.15 with a little router trick.
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
Flamespeak
Meh I'll keep nuying the ones I like and moding the console in order to play the thigns I buy.
Until lobbying is a hanging offense I choose anarchy! CP/IP laws should not effect the daily life of common people! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2011/12/31/what-is-cigital-disobedience/
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
As a PS3 owner who never used the feature, I agree with you EZK.
And haven't they already removed backwards compatibility for PS2 games? Or did they just stop shipping it? Because I know I can only play PS/PS3 games on my PS3, not PS2 games.
===============
Chris Kimberley
===============
Chris Kimberley
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
They phased BC out of the consoles. The first generation had full hardware BC. The second generation had hardware/software BC and the third gen and on had no BC.
But it is only a firmware update away that Sony could remove it from all consoles.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
So BC was simply a marketing tool to get the console into home, so later they can phase it out to force people to buy new software.
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
The thing with BC is they never removed it from existing consoles that already had it. Those early consoles with BC still have it working fine (or as fine as it ever did, not sure how good the software BC is) today. Thus, I have no issues with their removal of BC, though it may have been a bit frustrating for those who weren't early adopters but who still wanted BC.
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
Yup, it's the 'fit for the purpose' laws I was thinking of when I first read about this, it's one thing to remove a feature that wasn't present in the out-of-the-box version, it's another to remove a feature that was a selling point of the product.
I don't own a PS3, but as far as I'm aware, the product is sold from the box with the 'Other OS' option available, remove that at a later date, and it effectively renders the goods not fit for one of the purposes it was bought for, regardless of whether that feature was actually being used by the person.
Basically, Sony are setting an extremely bad precedent, that not only are your games only licensed from them at a whim, and they can alter the experience when it suits them, but even the consoles that people spent hundreds of dollars on, are still ultimately at the whim of Sony, and you are only a third party in the interaction.
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
'While the clause cited above might seem to be in direct opposition to Sony’s user agreement, which allows it to “prevent access to unauthorized or pirated content, or use of unauthorized hardware or software in connection with the PS3 system,” “lapetus” earned himself an £84.00 (approximately $128.91 U.S.) refund from Amazon using the tactic.'
Considering the feature in question was specifically designed by Sony to allow the running of Linux on the PS3, I fail to see how it could possibly be considered "unauthorized software". You could say it's unauthorized now that the feature is no longer included, but it wasn't unauthorized software at the time Sony advertised the feature to many of its customers. It's an essential difference.
What I regret is that Amazon rather than Sony should be the one to refund the customer's money. I think it should be Sony's responsibility instead.
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
They aren't referring to Linux as the unauthorized software. They are refering to pirated games.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
'They aren't referring to Linux as the unauthorized software. They are refering to pirated games.'
Why bring it up, then? The issue at hand is the removal of an official feature that is mostly used for legitimate purposes.
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
Because Sony decided that the other OS feature had the potential to open the system up to running unauthorized software.
E. Zachary Knight
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
http://www.theeca.com/chapters_oklahoma
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
And those who do run un-authorized software will have this hacked in less than a week and still be running it.
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
"Because Sony decided that the other OS feature had the potential to open the system up to running unauthorized software."
Which, as per usual, punishes everybody instead of just those who are actually guilty.
It's the typical MPAA/RIAA kind of tactic that every one should despise because it is Sony saying "You are all guilty".
Of course, all this means is that another way will be found to open up the system to unauthorized software. GFJ, Sony!
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
I think Sony worrying about piracy on their system is a little silly right now. Given the cost of Blu-ray burners, the effort for getting a PS3 hacked to use it for playing pirated games, and the recurring cost of blank blu-ray discs it will still be at least a few years before anybody but the most die-hard of hacker freaks even starts to tinker around with the possibilities of hacking the system. That isn't even getting into the fact that the system will not let you online if you don't have the current firmware installed.
It is a pretty jam up system they have for keeping their system relatively 'hack proof'. It is still possible to hack it, but the time and resources involved in doing so makes it not worth the trouble. I can't blame them for being a little bit over the top when it comes to keeping the console from being hackable though, look at what happened with the PSP. Many developers don't wanna touch that handheld because of the rampant piracy that is on the device.
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
The cost of Blu-Ray burners and blank Blu-Rays is actually irrelevant to piracy on the PS3. Because of how it has not only an internal hard drive that's easily swappable, but can also access external drives via USB, all of the hardware required for piracy is readily available to every PS3 owner. Even the PS2 had the ability in its later years to run games off of a hard drive, and the PSP has the ability to run games off of the memory stick. All that's needed is a custom firmware ala the PSP, or, in the case of the PS2, a boot disk.
The days of console piracy relying on physically copied media are pretty much over. The only system out now that still relies on a physical copy of every game for piracy that I know of is the 360, and I'm not even sure if that's still the case. The PSP only requires custom firmware and you can load as many games as you can fit onto a memory stick, the DS requires an R4-like cartridge and you can then do the same thing, and the Wii requires a firmware hack and an external hard drive. The PS3, by current indications, would most likely follow the same model as the PSP, where a custom firmware is all that's needed.
Re: Remove Other OS Function, Pocket $$$?
Which would mean the clause cited in the post is actually irrelevant to the Linux issue, right?
Which is not to say Sony wouldn't consider using it in court, if it came to that.