Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad Samaritans

April 27, 2010 -

A segment on Anderson Cooper’s CNN show last night discussed pedestrians in New York City repeatedly ignoring a dying man on the street and somehow turned into a referendum on videogames.

A NYC man was stabbed after apparently attempting to help a female fend off an attacker and then collapsed on the street as people kept passing by, eventually dying of his wounds. In discussing the story, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, filling in for Cooper, brought on board psychologist Dr. Michael Bradley (pictured) to talk about what might make people ignore a mortally wounded person lying on a sidewalk.

A transcript of the discussion follows (in video on the CNN website, the segment with Gupta and Bradley begins around the 17.25 mark)

Bradley: When we look at it (the video) we see a couple things, like you said there is the bystander effect and then there’s something called the fusion of responsibility. We’ve known about those for a while. I don’t think that’s what we are looking at in this Sanjay. I think what we are seeing is this new phenomena, this desensitization to violence where we are actually changing brain structures in a way, where people don’t get it when they look at it now.

Gupta: As a result of what… because of movies? Videogames? I’ve heard that before. Is it as simple as that?

Bradley: It is as simple and and as complex… We pound, particularly our children, we pound them 24/7 with what I call prompts, they are violent scenarios, they’re lyrics in a song, they’re scenes in a movie… all sorts of suggestions about violence to the point where the brain is now changing in these kids in the way it responds to real violence. It’s as if brains can’t discriminate between real violence and pain and cyber-violence.

Gupta: It’s one of those things where a lot of people game... they play these games. Are you saying an entire generation, an entire society is becoming desensitized… it’s a little bit hard to believe. Also, a lot of the people walking by were adults as far as I could tell. Is it happening mainly in kids or is it happening in adults as well according to what you’ve seen.

Bradley: Well, both and we’re seeing it in the past couple of decades, we saw this increasing saturation of violence in our media, really in the whole culture. The American culture loves violence. We can’t get enough of this stuff and it is falling out on our kids. … The science is real clear; if you expose kids to this stuff they do change, actually physiologically and neurologically, the way they respond to violence.

Gupta:  What role do you think the images from disasters, such as 9/11 or Haiti, have played. Is this just a more violent world to live in than what our grandparents experienced and do we see more of it?

Bradley: We definitely do see more of it. But the part that concerns us is that there’s a beneficial part to the Haiti series you did, which was phenomenal, where you’re really showing the real pain and real trauma in real life. The videogames have an effect where people get blown up and then you hit a button, they dust themselves off and you get up and play again. And that’s the response that really concerns us; when we see kids responding to true life violent scenarios in a way that’s passive, as if they are watching a game.


GP: Because things like this never happened before videogames.


Comments

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Bradley: We definitely do see more of it. But the part that concerns us is that there’s a beneficial part to the Haiti series you did, which was phenomenal, where you’re really showing the real pain and real trauma in real life. The videogames have an effect where people get blown up and then you hit a button, they dust themselves off and you get up and play again. And that’s the response that really concerns us; when we see kids responding to true life violent scenarios in a way that’s passive, as if they are watching a game.

So it's different for Sanjay Guptra that did the story of Haiti? But it's the same for people on the street ignoring the dying man & the children that can't tell the difference between reality & games & movies? That's what it sounds like Bradley. You don't make sense. I don't think Bradley realizes that a lot of people NOT just in NY do help other people dying. & not just on the streets too. He is obviously an idiot.

 

 

"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry

"It's better to be hated for who you are, then be loved for who you are not." - Montgomery Gentry

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

You know, once while I was working in a video game store, a woman approached the counter bleeding from her forehead. She had just tripped on the rug at the door and hit her head on the sidewalk. My first reaction to the situation was to tell her to sit tight, tell my co-worker to keep an eye on her, and run full-speed into the back room to fetch our first aid kit. My second reaction was to offer to call an ambulance. 

Clearly violent video games have warped my mind, eh? 

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Someone should find a link between violence and algrebra because everytime I look at the problems on my algebra homework I start bashing the walls and cursing.

____________________________________________________________________________

Courage is not the absence of fear, but the strength to overcome it.

 

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

To people who say that we live in a more violent society than what our grandparents did, seem to have forgotten how violent society was during World War 1 and World War 2, and how many other instances of violence that was around back then from the racism to the shunning of homosexuals and people with autism and women who gave birth without being married and shutting their voices away with remarks of hate and making people who are different feel like they are not part of the community.

And with politicians preaching about community values, when they themselves are perhaps doing the wrong things but nobody was ever aware of things.

From religious leaders taking advantage of young children and forcing them to keep quiet about it.

To gangsters paying bribs to cops and allowing the criminals to get away while to cops keep the money that was given to them.

Yeah...things were allot more violent back in the older days, the only difference is that now we have TV and the internet where information about that violence gets revealed while back in the day the only violence you would have seen would have been a picture in the printed newspaper.

 

TBoneTony

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

More evidence of what is negatively impacting society in the form of institutionalized bigotry and misinformation by way of individuals in authority rewriting history and exposing children to that misinformation to badly educate them and indoctrinate them into religious beliefs:

http://accesslineiowa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=433:action-reaction-redacting-history-by-brett-edward-stout&catid=92:editorials&Itemid=59

Nightwng2000

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Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

What, no response on my other post? Just going to ignore it? Whatever. Just letting you know that what you're doing is cherry picking, assuming that you're, again, trying say that religion is bad. Again, my I point out that one religion with an issue doesn't mean they all have them. And other, non religious groups, have done all those things as well. So I fail, to see you're point. There is nothing bad you can point out in one religion that is not only not shared by other religions but is shared by non religious groups.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Actually, I believe the evidence is clear that you have no intent to recognize the FACTS that religion serves, in whole and in part, a negative effect on society as a whole.  You refer to cherry picking.  Actually, it's presented evidence in various situations with various religions at different levels.

But you want to dismiss the evidence because you would rather put your religious beliefs ahead of the negative social impact that religion has.

If anything, your continued lies, deceit, misinformation, and attempts to downplay these acts show EXACTLY what your view of "morality" really, truly, is.  I'm enjoying having you prove my points.  You want to falsely shift blame elsewhere because the last thing you want is the Truth, The WHOLE Truth, And Nothing But The Truth shining on the long term and continued efforts to do significatnt harm to society.

The fact is that you have been taught by religious leaders to lie, deceive, and avoid the facts to protect your religious beliefs, even at the cost of society, honor, and ethics.

Please continue.  I'm enjoying watching what you call "morality".  You want to even play semantics, go ahead.  It's just further evidence that you are attempting to avoid the facts.  You want to scream cherry picking?  Go ahead.  All those individual acts come together to add up to an overall large number of acts committed in the name of religion.  You want to scream straw man because you can't deal with the reality of what is occurring because your religion has taught you to turn a blind eye to it?  Go ahead.  The Truth always winds out against the lies, deceit, and misinformation presented by religion.

Please, continue to try to swerve the point from acts committed by religious individuals and organizations that negatively affect society.  The last thing either Dr. Bradley or you, among others, want recognized is the many ways that religion has negatively affected society through education of children in the ways of bigotry and hate as well as giving them false information even in Public Schools by infiltrating school boards such as the one I just mentioned and forcing them to be educated through religion tampered textbooks that rewrite history.  Children so educated will be incapable of having intelligent conversations on the matter of world and national history because the information they will be provided with will be false because the religious community considers lies, deceit, and misinformation to be "morally correct".  We know that religious communities have attempted to tamper with science.  What's next?  Math?  Reading?  They've certainly tried to deprive children of proper reading material because their beliefs state that others don't have the Right to let the children of those others read a particular book.  And many have attempted to force their religious beliefs upon those who don't want their children exposed to such material by attempting to require religious texts as reading material in Public schools.

All this and more has an impact, a negative one, on society, far more than video games, movies, or books. 

So, please, show us where even segregating society by "superior" and "inferior" religious beliefs have, in fact, benefitted society.  Just the differences in religions creates a hostile atmosphere.  And, as shown, some of those religions have beliefs that teach negative attitudes and treatment of others for reasons other than religious beliefs.  So show us where it has, in fact, benefitted society.

Nightwng2000

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http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

"Actually, I believe the evidence is clear that you have no intent to recognize the FACTS that religion serves, in whole and in part, a negative effect on society as a whole.  You refer to cherry picking.  Actually, it's presented evidence in various situations with various religions at different levels."

Oh, I recongnizethe facts. They just aren't showing anytihing. Yes, those specific ones you've chosen are bad. You did present evidence, but you selected examples that helped your argument with no regard for those that would show otherwise. Not every religion is like those examples. And even then, for every example you show, I can find a non religious person or group doing the same thing (hate, intolerance, etc.). How can you account for that? That's why I called it cherry picking. You chose facts, just only the ones that showed your point. You convieniently forgot any that showed otherwise.

"But you want to dismiss the evidence because you would rather put your religious beliefs ahead of the negative social impact that religion has."

I haven't been dismissing your facts. I'm challenging your argument. And my religious beliefs have no bearing on this argument. I haven't even made my beliefs a part of this. And I'm not sure whether to consider this a straw man (your misrepresenting my position...again) or ad hominem (attacking me, not my argument). Probably both.

"If anything, your continued lies, deceit, misinformation, and attempts to downplay these acts show EXACTLY what your view of "morality" really, truly, is.  I'm enjoying having you prove my points.  You want to falsely shift blame elsewhere because the last thing you want is the Truth, The WHOLE Truth, And Nothing But The Truth shining on the long term and continued efforts to do significatnt harm to society."

Again, straw man and ad hominem. And here's what else has struck me as funny: You logically can't say whether or not I'm lying. It's absurd. I mean, what am I lying about? How do you know I'm lying? To lie requires knowing (or thinking) that you know the truth, yet telling knowingly telling something that is false. The funny thing is that the last time I had this type of thing was with a fundie. At any rate, I haven't attempted to lie, downplay, or shift blame. Your examples show bad people. If that was your argument, that your examples were bad, ammoral, or something, I really wouldn't care and maybe even agree with you on a specific one. But I haven't attempted to shift blame in any of these specific cases. My point is that these specific cases don't mean that all religion is like them. As for my morality, when in the hell did I even try to bring it into this?! I'm glad to see you enjoy me proving whatever it is to yourself. Whatever helps your ego. Seriously, what am I proving? Basically, this paragraph's a lot like the post before your last one.

"The fact is that you have been taught by religious leaders to lie, deceive, and avoid the facts to protect your religious beliefs, even at the cost of society, honor, and ethics."

You've met my priest? I mean, you have to have  met him and talked to him about me if he's taught me to "lie, decieve, and avoid the facts". Please, you should remember his name, correct? What exactly did he teach me to lie about?

"Please, continue to try to swerve the point from acts committed by religious individuals and organizations that negatively affect society.  The last thing either Dr. Bradley or you, among others, want recognized is the many ways that religion has negatively affected society through education of children in the ways of bigotry and hate as well as giving them false information even in Public Schools by infiltrating school boards such as the one I just mentioned and forcing them to be educated through religion tampered textbooks that rewrite history.  Children so educated will be incapable of having intelligent conversations on the matter of world and national history because the information they will be provided with will be false because the religious community considers lies, deceit, and misinformation to be "morally correct".  We know that religious communities have attempted to tamper with science.  What's next?  Math?  Reading?  They've certainly tried to deprive children of proper reading material because their beliefs state that others don't have the Right to let the children of those others read a particular book.  And many have attempted to force their religious beliefs upon those who don't want their children exposed to such material by attempting to require religious texts as reading material in Public schools."

And you can continue to do... whatever it is your doing. Or, rather don't. I mean, this whole thing is just getting annoying now. I mean, it's rather sad. All your doing is attacking me, yet doing so rather badly. I mean, your assuming my motives and are even trying to misrepresent my argument. You accuse me of deceit, yet your the one who's being intellectually dishonest. Yes, there have been some religious groups that have tried. But how does that reflect on all of religion, especially with those who are religious and think what they're doing is wrong. I mean, your basing all of your attacks on fundementalist christian beliefs, not all religions or potential religions. All the while, you ignore these religions along with any other non religious group that has done anything similar.

"All this and more has an impact, a negative one, on society, far more than video games, movies, or books."

I haven't even talked about videogames, movies, or books.

"So, please, show us where even segregating society by "superior" and "inferior" religious beliefs have, in fact, benefitted society.  Just the differences in religions creates a hostile atmosphere.  And, as shown, some of those religions have beliefs that teach negative attitudes and treatment of others for reasons other than religious beliefs.  So show us where it has, in fact, benefitted society."

And where did I say segregation was good? And if you're complaint against religion includes the fact that there are different ones being a problem, then that's terribly illogical. Because even if we got rid of all religion, there would still be people who are different. If you want to get rid of groups who have the potential to create tension due to differences, then you've got about several billion people to get rid of until you have everyone as the same. As for benefits religions have given, here's some general ones: pieces of art, charity, teachings in morality (the ones you agree with anyway), science, education etc. To put it one way, everything you're accusing religion of doing has been opposed or done the opposite by another religion or religious person at some time, even today. Where some religious guy has opposed evolution, I can show you one who promotes it. For every time a religious person has shown hate to a group, another has tried to show tolerance to the same group and/or condemn hate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_education#Europe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_science

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

As I said, taken seperately, each individual act seperated from the whole would be dismissed.  But, adding them together, along with the variety of religions that were responsible for those acts, shows that religion as a whole has had a negative impact on society.  From the smallest act of verbal and mental abuse committed by a child because they had been taught by religion that there are "superior" and "inferior" individuals, acts which tend not to be reported by news agencies, to mass acts of physical and/or sexual abuse of others in the name of a supreme being.

"Straw man" and "cherry picking" are continued efforts to ignore the argument.  More evidence against you, thank you.

I don't need to know your priest.  I've met the evidence of their efforts, you.  Thanks for giving me evidence of your priest's efforts.  Just saying that they, specifically, is doing something negative to society would be without facts.  But, now we have you.  Now, if we knew who they were, we could specifically name them for their negative influence on society.

The article was about video games and the blame Dr. Bradley is using them to point fingers at soceity in general.  Have you forgotten so readily in defense of your religion over the harm that IT does to society as well?  The point is that religion, as a direct method of education, has far more of a negative impact on society than any peripheral exposure to media such as video games, music, fictional based books, fictional based movies, etc.  Try to keep up, will you?

The issue on segregation wasn't that there were different religions, but that each different religion directly teaches that all others are bad for their beliefs, thereby creating, at the heart of it all, the "superiority" and "inferiority" of different groups.  Humans segregated themselves before religion based on actual physical differences, strong versus weak, and stereotypes developed to the point where assumption of select individuals were defined as "weak" versus "strong" (such as male versus female), even without actual evidence against any specific individual.

But religion expanded that segregationism to the extremes.  Differences in beliefs made superiors versus inferiors.  And some of those beliefs included segregation based on race, gender (beyond the previously accepted stereotypes), sexuality, nationality, and many, many other excuses to segregate.  And, of course, children being what they are, realize that if it's acceptable to the adults to treat certain others as "inferior" in certain ways, then not only should ANY act against their inferiors be "moral", but ANYONE else they decide to be inferior should be treated that way also.  The point isn't that they ARE different, it's that they TEACH others, including children, that those differences make all others inferior.

Nightwng2000

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Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

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Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

"As I said, taken seperately, each individual act seperated from the whole would be dismissed.  But, adding them together, along with the variety of religions that were responsible for those acts, shows that religion as a whole has had a negative impact on society.  From the smallest act of verbal and mental abuse committed by a child because they had been taught by religion that there are "superior" and "inferior" individuals, acts which tend not to be reported by news agencies, to mass acts of physical and/or sexual abuse of others in the name of a supreme being."

Correct, if you add all the negative effects, you show religion as negative. But you are choosing specific cases that support your argument while ignoring those that contradict it. That is cherry picking. If you were comparing all aspects and influences of religion, then you would get a different picture than the picture your painting. And I'm talking all religions and all people who are religious.

"'"Straw man" and "cherry picking" are continued efforts to ignore the argument.  More evidence against you, thank you."'"

Do fallacies always go over your head? I'm not trying to point these out to ignore the argument. I've argued your points on posts with these fallacies. I'm pointing these specific times you've used them. Straw man: You've been trying to insist my argument and reasons for it are something else. Look up the definition if you'd like. I could also claim ad hominem because you're attacking me rather than my argument. It's insulting and unecessary. And how can you complain about religious people being hateful, intolerant, or assholes when you youself won't give any damn decency? As for cherry picking, I just explained it on my last paragraph. Look, if don't agree with my call of fallacy, then explain why you don't think so. Or don't, but don't be an ass about it.

"I don't need to know your priest.  I've met the evidence of their efforts, you.  Thanks for giving me evidence of your priest's efforts.  Just saying that they, specifically, is doing something negative to society would be without facts.  But, now we have you.  Now, if we knew who they were, we could specifically name them for their negative influence on society."

Actually, for you to know that he taught me any of what I'm saying, you would have to know him. Here's some evidence: None of this argument has come from any religious teaching. And are you insisting that I'm a negative impact on society? Please correct me if I'm wrong in the last sentance seems to imply. Because, now I'm offended. Evidently, I'm a negative effect on society because I'm religious. You don't even know my beliefs, much less how they're affecting society today. Are you always so presumptuous? Honestly, whatever evidence I've given you must be in your head.

"The article was about video games and the blame Dr. Bradley is using them to point fingers at soceity in general.  Have you forgotten so readily in defense of your religion over the harm that IT does to society as well?  The point is that religion, as a direct method of education, has far more of a negative impact on society than any peripheral exposure to media such as video games, music, fictional based books, fictional based movies, etc.  Try to keep up, will you?"

If you're arguing that religion is worse than media, than we're on two different pages here. I'm arguing the fact that religion isn't one giant negative effect on society. I'm not arguing it's comparision to modern media. Seems to me we've had a failure to communicate. Awkward. Quit being an douche, will you?

"The issue on segregation wasn't that there were different religions, but that each different religion directly teaches that all others are bad for their beliefs, thereby creating, at the heart of it all, the "superiority" and "inferiority" of different groups.  Humans segregated themselves before religion based on actual physical differences, strong versus weak, and stereotypes developed to the point where assumption of select individuals were defined as "weak" versus "strong" (such as male versus female), even without actual evidence against any specific individual."

Incorrect. While by default, every belief that is different is considered incorrect by another belief, not all religions teach that other religions are "bad", "evil", "inferior", or something similar. Be it the Pope and the Dali Lama being friends or a simple muslim/christian friendship. Yes, one may think that the other is wrong, but that doesn't mean one neccesarily thinks of the other as inferior. Let's use us as an example. We disagree, but do either of us think of the other as an inferior person? I may think of you as offensive, but I find you're no less a person because of your nature. And I'm assuming you don't think of me as inferior (hopefully). Religious differences are differences in belief. And using your logic that teaching that another belief is wrong means that one must consider other beliefs and their respective believers is then something that should be also targeted at politics, philosophy, morality, etc. Because we all have different beliefs, religious or otherwise. Religion is just another belief. People choose how to act on them. There are people in all of those fields who do treat others badly out of beliefs such as those three. Yet, we both know that not all of them are like that. Difference only becomes segregation when people decide differences are excuses for such things. Like I said, if you want to get rid of different beliefs, then you've got a lot of beliefs to kill off before only one is left.

"But religion expanded that segregationism to the extremes.  Differences in beliefs made superiors versus inferiors.  And some of those beliefs included segregation based on race, gender (beyond the previously accepted stereotypes), sexuality, nationality, and many, many other excuses to segregate.  And, of course, children being what they are, realize that if it's acceptable to the adults to treat certain others as "inferior" in certain ways, then not only should ANY act against their inferiors be "moral", but ANYONE else they decide to be inferior should be treated that way also.  The point isn't that they ARE different, it's that they TEACH others, including children, that those differences make all others inferior."

And you've just hit it. Differences in beliefs. If you get rid of religion, beliefs themselves still exist. Even those differences on race, gender, sexuality, nationality, and the rest of it is not only seen in few religions, but some are more likely outside of it or are unneccesary for its involvement. And all of these affects on children are not only capable outside religion, but a lot of what you've noted (race, gender, sexuality, etc) don't need religion. I get your point, but it's flawed. Not all (I would even say few), religions teach children that anyone who disagrees is inferior. I was not taught that I am superior because of my beliefs. I do not consider myself as superior to my friends out of  my belief. And even then, the same thing, being taught that others are inferior, will happen regardless of religion or not, because as long as there is difference, people may or may not teach such inferiority. So please, don't shove all of us who are religious in the same damn boat.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

 If you can't give yourself life, what right do you have to terminate something that doesn't really belong to you? You have no control of your lifetime, you can't start it and you don't know when it is supposed to end naturally. So besides it being a sin without a way for repentance, I don't think anyone has the right to end it, Either someone else's or your own.

Also please remember that there's a difference between Christianity, and religion. If you remember, it was the "religious" crowd who hated, and temporarily killed Christ.

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

I suppose you can chalk up the Kitty Genovese incident to violent video games as well? What a bunch of fear-mongering hacks.

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Thanks for mentioning her.  Didn't know about her, but when you mentioned her, I News Googled her name.  There are many articles, here's just one that does a very good job at looking at various possible aspects of reasoning.  They do a FAR better job at evaluation than "Dr." Bradley.

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/kitty-genovese-2010-people-walked-by-hugo-alfredo-tale-yax-as-he-lay-dying/19454372

Nightwng2000

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http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

What a bunch of crap.  It's hard to tell from the video but it doesn't appear the man is lying in a pool of blood.  This is Queens, New York.  Seeing a homeless man (which this guy was) lying in the street is not a new sight.  You can't say the passersby are indifferent to the suffering of their fellow man, at least not from the clips of the video I've seen.

But what about the guy that turned him over?

Maybe he left to call the police?  They did show up sometime later.  Maybe it's because he called them.

At the end of the day, this is not desensitization to violence caused by violent media.  This is desensitization to homeless people lying in the street.  Big difference that.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

The bystander effect is actually quite powerful. Their was a case of a women being raped and stabbed in public. The event was seen by dozens, maybe near a hundred people. This doesn't mean we don't care if someone is raped and kill. Saying the word rape still sends chills down people's backs.

Saying that people are too desensitized is not the problem. We will help people who had a simple fall if the bystander effect wasn't a factor. I am sure that if one person helped the bleeding man, everyone in the area would help.

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Anybody remember how the last episode of Seinfeld ended?

It's not video games that are desensitizing people to violence.  It's New York.

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Humph! New York City was a glorious place where everyone regardless of where they lived was a neighbor and neighbors were like family and everyone would go out of their way to help their fellow man and at nights we'd stand around campfires in Central Park and sing Kumbaya until morning when the sun would rise we'd chase rainbows while skipping with hand in hand!  And then the damned TV and Vidya Games came and ruined it all and turned our fair city and others into a crime ridden cesspits! You don't even want to know what they did to our dear friends in New Jersey. =(

 

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

We live in such a litigous society that a person might get sued for trying to help. The law itself is so confusing that an average citizen has no idea what their responsibility is.

Couple that with organized crime. Will I be targetted if I help this person who may have been targetted by gangs or the mob?

And lastly, is he really injured? Did I see blood? If someone is rolling around clutching their gut I might ignore them. In LA it usually means he's having a bad trip or crack withdrawls. In which case getting close to him could be dangerous.

Now if I saw a man pleading for help or unconscious and lying in a pool of blood, I'd call 911 at least and I'm pretty sure the people of NYC would also. What were the circumstances? Do these psychologists have the right to call people callous and insensitive NO ONE COULD TELL THE MAN WAS DYING?

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

This has nothing to do with being desensitized to violence. These people are walking by a man lying on the ground, it's a common sight in most cities. They simply weren't aware that this man was in need of help.

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

 I lived in LA for 5 years.  I can absolutely see this happening.  What the real cause of it is isn't violent media or anything like that.  The cause is people in large cities ignore the homeless.  Now, the argument here, of course, would be that this guy wasn't homeless, but rather was a stab victim.  Well, if you were a passerby, and saw ahead a man on the ground asking for help, your first thought wouldn't go to 'stab victim.'  Most probably thought he was a beggar trying to get some change, and thus ignored him.

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

 Ya that's what i was thinking... i'd have to actually see what happened and what he looked like, but i could easily see him pegged as just being another homeless person which people in the city teach themselves to ignore on their daily strolls through the city

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Gupta: What role do you think the images from disasters, such as 9/11 or Haiti, have played. Is this just a more violent world to live in than what our grandparents experienced and do we see more of it?

Yeah, because our grandfathers and fathers never experienced any colossal amounts of violence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_war_II

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_war

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_war

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

 Well one factor you have to take into account is how much our grandparents were able to SEE. Most people did not see the wars themselves as media was not what it is today. Sure those things happened, but the question is how many people saw it; America in particular since we have kept the wars far away from our soil

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

And Fox News is at it again... wait...

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Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

While I wouldn't be willing to say "Violent Media has NO role in this!"... I would say that far greater than video games, movies, or music is good old fashioned "News" coverage from various major networks.

The major news networks fill our TV screens with constant coverage of violence and suffering, they are the greatest fearmongers out there, and it is this fear that stops us helping others... sure, he might be injured, we say.. but how did he get injured, he might be a violent druggie, or worse!

"We never paid any heed to the ancient prophecies... Like fools we clung to the old hatreds, and fought as we had for generations"

"We never paid any heed to the ancient prophecies... Like fools we clung to the old hatreds, and fought as we had for generations"

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

I agree... you have the President of the United States going to war for no reason other than to satisfy his own greed.  Thousands of US soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraqis have died because of WMDs that did not exist.  In an unjustified war.

I would think that the POTUS is a stronger role model than even the Master Chief.

------- Morality has always been in decline. As you get older, you notice it. When you were younger, you enjoyed it.

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

It's Sanjay Gupta on Anderson Cooper's show. I think that pretty much explains it all.

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

To be fair, she sounded at least somewhat skeptical of the claims in the transcript.

"Are you saying an entire generation, an entire society is becoming desensitized… it’s a little bit hard to believe"

Maybe not quite as skeptical as she should have been, but that one statement above coming from a member of the mainstream media is pretty unusual.

 

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

We see religion filling our children's minds with the idea that whole groups of Humans are "abominations", "immoral", "unnatural", "freaks", etc, etc.  We see these long term teachings from the youngest age spread to other groups, intentional or not, because hating one group who is "different" and/or "inferior" is "morally" correct and, therefore, treating others the same way must ALSO be "morally" correct.

We see the continued spreading and acceptance of stereotyping, directly or indirectly, to the youngest as being honorable, ethical, and intelligent.  We see the contradictions various individuals and organizations claim that discrimination and stereotyping is bad, while they, out of those very same mouths, support, advocate, and create whole new stereotypes and justify them.

We see the elimination of one type of institutionalized bigotry and discrimination in our legal system, while creating all new intitutionalized bigotry and discrimination over long periods of time that are claimed, by the very individuals who supposedly fought against the original institutionalized bigotry and dicrimination, to be justified and acceptable.

We see new laws forcing individuals to take action, while other laws punish for taking some form of action to help others.

We've seen news stories of individuals who have offered help, only to find that those they help violently respond to their aid, injuring, robbing, even killing those who help.  Either as an intended ambush or out of fear.  We've even seen lawsuits by the supposed victim against those who offered aid.

We are a society that has many in it viewing "the further away", the less concern one should have.  Either it's easier to kill from a great physical distance than face to face, or a relationship distance (easier to aid those who are family and/or friends than a stranger on the street or across a nation or across the world).

<Fill in the blank>

<Fill in the blank>

<Fill in the blank>

There's plenty of evidence as to why society is the way it is.  Those pretenders just don't have the REAL "expertise" to think it through.

Nightwng2000

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Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

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Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Stereotypes are not meant to be used for logic and reason, they are meant more for humor using awkward facsimiles and puns to make people laugh. TO many people use them to seriously and to many people take them even more seriously........


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Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

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Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

While I think the ire aimed at video games in this case is misplaced, your ire at religion is typical of your overreactions.  Religions that teach hatred and intolerance are not true religions, but perversions of such.

The details of this story are rather dispicable, especially since someone stopped to take a picture of the dying man WITH HIS CELL PHONE instead of thinking to call 911.

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Since when were Baptists, Catholics, Episcopals, and other denominations NOT religious groups?

When the leader of the Baptist convention stood up and, recorded and played back on various news shows, referred to homosexuals as "abominations", are you telling me that, suddenly, Baptists are no longer considered a valid religion on this planet?  They aren't only saying at their conventions and on the news, they are spreading it in the churches, where children are exposed to and learn from it.  The children are hearing it from other Baptists in their circle of family and friends and being motivated to believe it is acceptable.

When various religious leaders, recognized enough to speak in legislature, claim that an anti-abuse (anti-bullying) law deprives them of their Constitutional Right to verbally, mentally, physically, and/or sexually abuse others, in this case children, because of what their religious beliefs, do you think they would have been given enough validity to delay said bill if they had been a religion that worships a head of lettuce?  And what do you think these individuals are speading to the children of the families that worship at their churches?

When the likes of Elizabeth Dole stands up and condemns her opponent in an election because her Christian opponent had some sort of meeting with an Atheist group, do you really think that people dismiss her because she's a part of a cult?  She's gained the respect of a great many religious groups and what type of bigotry and hate is not only being spread in her own church to children but in the churches of those who support her?  She may have lost the election, but she did not get where she was by being a member of a cult.

Children are being educated by prominent religious groups to commit acts, both non-violent and violent, against others.  Even those religions who teach just bigotry and hate invaribly have planted the seed in the minds of children that anyone who is "inferior" deserves abuse.  And rest assured, there ARE children who will, whether the religion openly agrees with it or not, commit all forms of abuse against their victims and will justify it by claiming the initial religious teachings.

You call my statements overreaction.  I call you supporting, even indirectly, the atrocities committed by those religions, INCLUDING major religions, by downplaying, ignoring, or even justifying them.

Nightwng2000

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Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

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Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

@nightwing

First, the idea that violence in religions or those who are religious extremists mean that they aren't truly religious is a false statment. They are still religious. However, the idea that religion itself is hateful or leads to bigotry, hate, etc. is just as wrong. To start, plenty of non religious groups or beliefs lead to hate. Politics is a great example that we've all seen make douchebags of people. Yet, politics aren't be hailed as being the cause of hate. I have met plenty of atheists who claim religion always leads to bigotry, while ignoring things such as those who believe that homosexuality is wrong yet defend them on issues and ignoring atheists who have declared that whole religions deserve to die. I've been told personally that me and the entirety of the catholic church deserve to burn in another holocaust. Intolerant, bigoted, hateful (whatever you want to refer to them as) atheists exist. Honestly, atheism is as full of intolerant jackasses as religion, and both "fundies", so to speak, in religion and atheistm ignore that. Hate, intolerance, etc. can come from anywhere.

Now, to look at quotes from your earlier posts:

"'We see religion filling our children's minds with the idea that whole groups of Humans are "abominations", "immoral", "unnatural", "freaks", etc, etc.  We see these long term teachings from the youngest age spread to other groups, intentional or not, because hating one group who is "different" and/or "inferior" is "morally" correct and, therefore, treating others the same way must ALSO be "morally" correct.'"

First, remember that morality is subjective, even in matters that almost all of society agrees on. Second, thinking something is morally "wrong" doesn't neccesarily mean that a person is "inferior". Nor is there anything saying that someone that does something "wrong" should be hated. You yourself said that the issue is interpretation and perception. Even in the case of issues such as homosexuality, the views of those who think it is "wrong" vary. And all you've just complained about is, again, seen everywhere in all people.

"We see the continued spreading and acceptance of stereotyping, directly or indirectly, to the youngest as being honorable, ethical, and intelligent.  We see the contradictions various individuals and organizations claim that discrimination and stereotyping is bad, while they, out of those very same mouths, support, advocate, and create whole new stereotypes and justify them."

 

First, in the case of stereotypes, that doesn't neccesarily come from religion or morality either. In the case of homosexuality, stereotypes of them didn't come from religions and not all religions that think it's "wrong" stereotype said people who are commiting things that are "wrong".

"Religion tends to be the ultimate segregation training tool.  Just the mere existance of not only different religions and their sects, but the conflicts they have with one another."

So, people being different leads to segregation?

"When the leader of the Baptist convention stood up and, recorded and played back on various news shows, referred to homosexuals as "abominations", are you telling me that, suddenly, Baptists are no longer considered a valid religion on this planet?  They aren't only saying at their conventions and on the news, they are spreading it in the churches, where children are exposed to and learn from it.  The children are hearing it from other Baptists in their circle of family and friends and being motivated to believe it is acceptable."

Baptists are a poor example on your part. There beliefs vary like crazy. Even when they share beliefs, attitudes vary which in themselves make new beliefs.

"When various religious leaders, recognized enough to speak in legislature, claim that an anti-abuse (anti-bullying) law deprives them of their Constitutional Right to verbally, mentally, physically, and/or sexually abuse others, in this case children, because of what their religious beliefs, do you think they would have been given enough validity to delay said bill if they had been a religion that worships a head of lettuce?  And what do you think these individuals are speading to the children of the families that worship at their churches?"

The thing about those laws and religion is that the reason isn't so simple. The concern for such laws by the churches I've seen (can't say the same for those who really do intend to bully) is that "bullying" legally might include saying that homosexuality is wrong. And if they worshiped a head of lettuce, nothing would change. Just as it wouldn't make it more valid, it wouldn't lessen the validity either.

"When the likes of Elizabeth Dole stands up and condemns her opponent in an election because her Christian opponent had some sort of meeting with an Atheist group, do you really think that people dismiss her because she's a part of a cult?  She's gained the respect of a great many religious groups and what type of bigotry and hate is not only being spread in her own church to children but in the churches of those who support her?  She may have lost the election, but she did not get where she was by being a member of a cult."

That example seems off to me. For one, why exactly did she condemn her opponent for the meeting? Is there something about the meeting that she thinks is bad? And the term "cult" in your use is nothing more than a condensending term meant to discredit her religion without an actual point. That isn't even the correct use of the term. And what does her problem with the meeting have to do with bigotry or hate?

"Children are being educated by prominent religious groups to commit acts, both non-violent and violent, against others.  Even those religions who teach just bigotry and hate invaribly have planted the seed in the minds of children that anyone who is "inferior" deserves abuse.  And rest assured, there ARE children who will, whether the religion openly agrees with it or not, commit all forms of abuse against their victims and will justify it by claiming the initial religious teachings."

Again, something that is not only not seen in many religions, but seen in plenty of those groups who aren't religious.

"You call my statements overreaction.  I call you supporting, even indirectly, the atrocities committed by those religions, INCLUDING major religions, by downplaying, ignoring, or even justifying them."

Last I checked, he isn't supporting the atrocies of religions in anyway. He, and I as well, just seem to have a problem with your generalizing. What you're doing is an overreaction.

You're pretty much as erroneous as Dr. Bradley, who should know this is just another example of the Bystander Affect.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

 

 

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Actually, it is YOU, and others, who are far more liken to Dr. Bradley.  After all, you are showing the very evidence that I pointed out.  Supporting the negative effects of religion that I pointed out by downplaying it and shifting blame elsewhere, like any shell gamer would.  Downplay it, claim that it doesn't exist or doesn't exist to the extent that it has proven to exist, and shift the discussion and blame to those who actually oppose such activity.  You are keeping them well alive, active, and supported by your actions. 

You can lie, deceive, and misinform others regarding the activities of non-religious individuals and organizations in an effort to protect the religious individuals and organizations who have an extremely harmful and long term term effect on society.  But the actions of those individuals and organizations will continue to be kept in the Public eye and shown to be the harmful influences, not merely through peripheral exposure as fictional video games, books, movies, music, etc are, but rather direct educational method for teaching the young and adult alike the dishonorable, unethical, and truly immoral ways of treating other real individuals and groups of individuals.

The negative broad range of exposure that religion has had on society far outweighs ANYTHING pop culture could ever have on society.  Religion has been actively harming soceity for a great deal longer than any one pop culture item has ever had.  Primarily because it IS a direct educational tool for how followers should treat others who are not followers.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

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Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

"Actually, it is YOU, and others, who are far more liken to Dr. Bradley.  After all, you are showing the very evidence that I pointed out.  Supporting the negative effects of religion that I pointed out by downplaying it and shifting blame elsewhere, like any shell gamer would.  Downplay it, claim that it doesn't exist or doesn't exist to the extent that it has proven to exist, and shift the discussion and blame to those who actually oppose such activity.  You are keeping them well alive, active, and supported by your actions."

Nice straw man argument. I'm not trying to downplay, shift blame, and/or claim that religions acting badly don't exist. You entirely misrepesented my argument. My point is that your claims are a generalization. Not all religions are such. Heck, any person of any belief or belief system can be such. You're cherry picking religions and religious views.

"You can lie, deceive, and misinform others regarding the activities of non-religious individuals and organizations in an effort to protect the religious individuals and organizations who have an extremely harmful and long term term effect on society.  But the actions of those individuals and organizations will continue to be kept in the Public eye and shown to be the harmful influences, not merely through peripheral exposure as fictional video games, books, movies, music, etc are, but rather direct educational method for teaching the young and adult alike the dishonorable, unethical, and truly immoral ways of treating other real individuals and groups of individuals."

Again, a straw man. I'm not trying to lie, decieve, and/or misinform. I'm not trying to protect bad religious individuals or attack innocent organziations. I haven't made any argument against videogames, books, movies, etc. Thanks for giving me nothing.

"The negative broad range of exposure that religion has had on society far outweighs ANYTHING pop culture could ever have on society.  Religion has been actively harming soceity for a great deal longer than any one pop culture item has ever had.  Primarily because it IS a direct educational tool for how followers should treat others who are not followers."

And the final straw man. What am I saying? This whole thing's been a straw man. I'm haven't even mentioned pop culture.

So, yeah, a whole lot of straw man. Combine that with what could be called an appeal to emotion and some appeal to motive, and what we've got here is a giant red herring. I mean, you haven't even countered anything of my last post.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

I'm not against religion but I'm very much against what religion makes people do.

My friend's mother committed suicide when he was very young.  Their priest took a moment at her funeral to tell the family how she was going to hell and all of her family was too.

How is that good for anyone?  The worst part about it is that he's a PRIEST... he's spreading the word of "god"

------- Morality has always been in decline. As you get older, you notice it. When you were younger, you enjoyed it.

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

There are many religious organizations who tend to teach that belief that suicide is an unforgivable sin.  Being a proponent of an individual's Right to die when they choose, I'm am usually rather upset over such general claims by the religions.

But what this so-called religious leader did at that particular time... I hope those present took action, later if not immediately.  Leaving his church in disgust, and saying so to his face, would be the least I would do.

Nightwng2000

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Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

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Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

And that religious group would be...?

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

This:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_suicide

This:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_suicide

This (with resource reference):

http://www.gotquestions.org/suicide-Bible-Christian.html

And other resources found by googling "Christian views on suicide".

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000

Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

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Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Funny thing actually. None of your sources, as far as I've seen, has shown that any religion sees suicide as "unforgivable", certainly not any of the more common denominations. Definitely nothing showing "unforgivable" in the wiki pages.

 

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Perhaps you will share with us what penance a dead person might pay to be forgiven for committing the sin of suicide?

Nightwng2000

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Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Well, first, there's always time from the moment that someone does the specific act of which death itself is unavoidable to the moment of death that one can ask for it (prayer). And lets not also forget that sucide in christianity or even is specific christian groups is not so black and white. Not all suicide is considered the same. To quote you're own source in catholicism: "The 1997 Catechism of the Catholic Church indicated that the person who committed suicide may not always be fully right in their mind; and thus not one-hundred-percent morally culpable: "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide." The Catholic Church prays for those who have committed suicide, knowing that Christ shall judge the deceased fairly and justly. The Church also prays for the close relations of the deceased, that the loving and healing touch of God will comfort those torn apart by the impact of the suicide." Then there's the difference between Mortal and Venial Sins. And even if one doesn't ask for it, God himself has the ability to forgive (keep note that this is all assuming you're religious). To put it another way, it can be said that God can forgive after death. So, to just straight up claim that religious groups, in this case presumably catholic or protestant, suicde isn't cut and dry. And even if there is one religion who thinks that suicide is unforgivable, how does that reflect on all religions? What you seem to be doing is generalizing all religion and cherry picking your examples. If I bring forth an example of someone who has different religious views on suicide than the ones you're choosing, which I can, then you're whole generalization is incorrect.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

You're missing the point completely.  It's not about debating at what point or which technicality someone of some religion or another can get away with killing themselves.  It's that people are so sure that their morality is the correct one that they'll forgo the littlest bit of human decency in order to express their "morality."

This is a common trait of all religion (even militant atheism).  I know that a lot of people who are religious have some measure of human decency but it's people like Pat Robertson who's got schools all across the US and numerous TV shows that have none.  Yet they lead legions of people to condemn others who don't share their views.  Open your eyes... these are your "moral" leaders.  Telling their flock that the Haitian earthquake was deserved, that people should be assassinated, that people that do not love who they "should" love are abominations.  

Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist church is a extreme example of something that underlies the way that religion is followed in the world today.

 

/endrant

 

 

------- Morality has always been in decline. As you get older, you notice it. When you were younger, you enjoyed it.

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

I don't think you understand my point. It seems to me that he was trying to suggest the views of all religions out of an assumption. I corrected it. He said suicide was considered unforgivable by many religions. Anyway, I asked what religious group, and made the mistake of responding to his question. He, understandably, misunderstood my question, and showed religions that he thought considered sucided unforgivable, along with some wiki pages and other sources. Using his own wiki pages along with other facts about the specific religions, I showed how suicide is forgivable to the religions he seems to have said do. Sorry, but I think you didn't get the point. Please correct me if you did get it.

"It's that people are so sure that their morality is the correct one that they'll forgo the littlest bit of human decency in order to express their "morality."

And that's the point I've been trying to make to him. Religious, atheistic, whatever. Incidently, the term "militant atheist" has never appealed to me. I mean, it is used on those who aren't violent or extremist. I mean, I'm sure there are those for which it would better apply, but not in the cases I've seen. I prefer "fundementalist atheist". The term "fundementalism" applies to them in a better way. At any rate, they are all capable of the same good, bad, or whatever. Morality is something that isn't limited by religion. Certain moral views aren't restricted to those who believe in a god(s).

"Open your eyes... these are your "moral" leaders.  Telling their flock that the Haitian earthquake was deserved, that people should be assassinated, that people that do not love who they "should" love are abominations."

Again, not my point. My point is that anyone could have beliefs such as the ones you just mentioned. Religion isn't alone in having those who think that people deserve natural disasters. Plenty of atheists think certain people should be assassinated. And the idea that homosexuality is "wrong" and that because it is wrong that homosexuals should be treated badly is not limited to the religious. All of these moral flaws in groups can be seen everywhere. Religious, atheistic, secular, whatever.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Getting closer.  Yes, I agree that these behaviors are not only found in religious people.  But the difference is that behaviors are frowned upon by agnostics, secularist and other non-religious denominations.

However, not only are these behaviors accepted in religious communities, but promoted.  The most vocal are even given TV shows on which spew their hatred.

Religion may not be alone in thinking some people deserve natural disasters, but they're the only people going on TV telling millions of people so DURING the catastrophe.

Human decency.  I seem to remember that's what religion is supposed to be about.  Seems like these days it's about outrage, anger, hatred and oppression.

------- Morality has always been in decline. As you get older, you notice it. When you were younger, you enjoyed it.

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

"Getting closer.  Yes, I agree that these behaviors are not only found in religious people.  But the difference is that behaviors are frowned upon by agnostics, secularist and other non-religious denominations."

Incorrect. I can find many instances where such behavior, such as condemning Hati, terrorist acts, etc. are condemned by the religious. They are only really promoted by those who supported their acts in the first place, which really is nothing unusual. Just as a those on the political right or left might approve of some uncivil act of a left/right politician. Or an atheist supporting some idiotic attack on religion.

As for getting TV shows for their spewing, what does that change compared to the level of indecency? Access to television. A douchebage isn't somehow more of one when he gets TV access. And lets not forget that it's not the only way to spread it. Actually, you're forgetting the douchebags that get much more face time and spread hate, intolreance, indecency, whatever. Again, politics, especially biased news stations, are common. Whether it's Beck, Hannity, Olberman, Maddow, etc. They spew biased crap like nothing else in the world.

"Human decency.  I seem to remember that's what religion is supposed to be about.  Seems like these days it's about outrage, anger, hatred and oppression."

Sorry to disappoint you,  but all religion really requires is a belief in a god(s). Its as much a big part of religion as intelligence is often said to be for atheism. Human Decency is defined by people. Even the religion with the most rules on decency can't prevent the indecent from coming around. That's humanity for you. As for outrage, anger, hatred, and oppression, it's like what I think I've already said. It's possible anywhere but not seen everywhere.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...


A douchebage isn't somehow more of one when he gets TV access.

Actually he is, he gets viewer ship.  And in terms of a free market, the more viewers he has the longer he stays on the air.  Pat Robertson has been on the air for a very long time.  He also gets invited to numerous other shows to spew his bile.  People WANT to hear how they should hate others.  THAT is why he's a douche.

Sorry to disappoint you,  but all religion really requires is a belief in a god(s).

Sorry to disappoint you. But you confuse faith and religion.  That's a very dangerous thing to do.  Religion is a construct that is adhered to.  I can believe in a god without having to belong to any religion.  However the opposite is not true (unless that religion specifically does not have a god).  Note: I am NOT an atheist.  I am very spiritual but do not belong to a denomination.  Just wanted to make that clear.  My problem is with organized religion, not faith.

Human Decency is defined by people.

And that belief is why the religious can dismiss things like common courtesy.  Their almighty knows better what's decent than the decency defined by people.  Like... not telling an eleven year old child that he and his dead mother are going to hell at her funeral... that might be something that *I* as a human might think is decent.  But apparently I'm wrong.

 

------- Morality has always been in decline. As you get older, you notice it. When you were younger, you enjoyed it.

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

"Actually he is, he gets viewer ship.  And in terms of a free market, the more viewers he has the longer he stays on the air.  Pat Robertson has been on the air for a very long time.  He also gets invited to numerous other shows to spew his bile.  People WANT to hear how they should hate others.  THAT is why he's a douche."

No, he just becomes a douche with viewers. Viewers don't automatically make his beliefs more asinine. He could be on air for until the end of time, but his level of douche, if altered, would not be done so simply because of more people. Now, in a specific incident where viewership did something to alter his beliefs, then that may do something. But his beliefs and the way he flaunts his belief is his thing.

"Sorry to disappoint you. But you confuse faith and religion.  That's a very dangerous thing to do.  Religion is a construct that is adhered to.  I can believe in a god without having to belong to any religion.  However the opposite is not true (unless that religion specifically does not have a god).  Note: I am NOT an atheist.  I am very spiritual but do not belong to a denomination.  Just wanted to make that clear.  My problem is with organized religion, not faith."

Thank you for correcting me, but my point still stands. Decency isn't something that really should be somehow expected to be a part of religion or somehow a defining part of it. While I guess one could say most religious people are decent or something like that, it isn't necessarily a part of the belief.

"And that belief is why the religious can dismiss things like common courtesy.  Their almighty knows better what's decent than the decency defined by people.  Like... not telling an eleven year old child that he and his dead mother are going to hell at her funeral... that might be something that *I* as a human might think is decent.  But apparently I'm wrong."

But who made the religion? Man did, though I suppose except for the one that is the true one. Actually, even then it is influenced by man. As for common courtesy, people will use any excuse to get rid of that, even if their religious beliefs say to show it. And as for your example, what of a person who isn't religious who says something just as indecent. And another thing is that your being to broad. It's one thing to attack a specific group, but you're getting all religion into this. I mean, what of those religions who teach decency? What of those decent religious people, especially those who worship the same god as the douchebags? To attack all of religion for something that neither all religions or religous people do or have done isn't really fair.

 

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

Very well put.

However, I want to point out something.  My point wasn't necessarily that the priest didn't have the right to believe that his mother and family were going to hell - he's free to believe whatever he wants.  But to (at the funeral no less) decide to make his views known, that's just despicable.

When I said that I'm not against religion but I'm against what religion makes people do, that is what I mean.  Just because you believe you have "morality" does not mean you have to give up something called "human decency".  They are not mutually exclusive.

Note: I'm not sure what church he belonged to.  I didn't ask.  I didn't want to poke at what understandably was a terrible tragedy in his life.

------- Morality has always been in decline. As you get older, you notice it. When you were younger, you enjoyed it.

Re: Psychologist: Violent Games & Media Create Bad ...

I was talking about the specific religion the priest was part of.

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." -Albert Einstein

 
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Andrew EisenIanC - I assume what he's getting at is the fact that once PS3/360 development ceases, there will be no more "For Everything But Wii U" games.04/23/2014 - 5:49pm
Andrew EisenMatthew - Yes, obviously developers will eventually move on from the PS3 and 360 but the phrase will continue to mean exactly what it means.04/23/2014 - 5:45pm
IanCAnd how does that equal his annoying phrase being meaningless?04/23/2014 - 5:09pm
Matthew Wilson@Andrew Eisen the phrase everything but wiiu will be meaningless afer this year becouse devs will drop 360/ps3 support.04/23/2014 - 4:43pm
Andrew EisenFor Everything But... 360? Huh, not many games can claim that title. Only three others that I know of.04/23/2014 - 3:45pm
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.joystiq.com/2014/04/23/another-world-rated-for-current-consoles-handhelds-in-germany/ Another World fulfills legal obligations of being on every gaming system under the sun.04/23/2014 - 12:34pm
Matthew Wilsonhttp://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/steam-gauge-do-strong-reviews-lead-to-stronger-sales-on-steam/?comments=1 Here is another data driven article using sales data from steam to figure out if reviews effect sales. It is stats heavy like the last one.04/23/2014 - 11:33am
Andrew EisenI love RPGs but I didn't much care for Tales of Symphonia. I didn't bother with its sequel.04/23/2014 - 11:21am
InfophileIt had great RPGs because MS wanted to use them to break into Japan. (Which had the side-effect of screwing NA PS3 owners out of Tales of Vesperia. No, I'm not bitter, why do you ask?)04/23/2014 - 10:52am
RedMageI'm still disappointed the 360 never broke into Japan either. It had a bevy of great RPGs in the late 2000s.04/23/2014 - 9:48am
TheSmokeyhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/22/call-of-duty-swatting-hoax_n_5195659.html?utm_hp_ref=canada&ir=Canada CoD loser calls SWAT on person who beat him04/23/2014 - 7:13am
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.joystiq.com/2014/04/23/xbox-one-reaches-japan-on-september-4/ Just give it up, Microsoft. You're NEVER going to be big in Japan, especially now that the notoriously clunky in Japan Kinect is MANDATORY.04/23/2014 - 7:10am
Cheater87Has this been posted yet? http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/Lord+Spencer/ssv-saudi-arabia-bans-bravely-default-because-it-promotes-pedophilia--272016.phtml04/22/2014 - 9:31pm
ZippyDSMleehttp://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/133898-Fatal-Frame-V-Coming-Exclusively-to-Wii-U04/22/2014 - 8:50pm
Matthew Wilsonit is a game worth playing if you have a pc/360/ps304/20/2014 - 9:34pm
MaskedPixelantehttps://twitter.com/IGLevine/status/457552538343325696 The Lutece Twins show up in some of the most unlikely of places.04/20/2014 - 2:44pm
Andrew EisenAs it happens, Chinatown Wars is the only GTA game I've played.04/19/2014 - 10:43am
Papa MidnightWith GTA5 (to date) failing to even provide indication of a PC release, I'm realising that this might be the first GTA game that I have not played (outside of Chinatown Wars) since the series inception.04/19/2014 - 8:14am
IanCSo im guessing a bunch of edutainment games, which a lot of people elsewhere are going gaga over, dot count as classics? Okay. If you don't mind me, i have a sudden urge to play Putt Putt....04/19/2014 - 6:15am
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.joystiq.com/2014/04/18/playstation-99-cent-sale-discounts-tokyo-jungle-super-stardust/ Weekend long PSN flash sale. So much stuff is 99 cents for the rest of the weekend.04/18/2014 - 5:59pm
 

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