Columnists Battle Over Impact of Games on Ambitionless Boys

July 6, 2010 -

As one Guardian author wondered what happened to the ambition of boys, citing videogames as at least a contributing factor, another Guardian columnist fired back, defending games as part of the solution.

Will Hutton’s Sunday column examined the possible reasons why society is churning out “so many disaffected, troubled and disengaged young men.” Hutton argued that “the great male demotivator is the risk of loss of face.” He continued:

One of the reasons that boys do not try harder is that the penalties for disengagement are so low – indeed, there are even rewards, at least in the sense that if you don't try, you can't fail. Much better to smoke dope, hang out and obsessively play computer games all day.

Columnist Keith Stuart took umbrage with this suggestion, penning a follow-up article in which he lamented that “there's little attempt to recognise that games are not the solitary teen male pursuits that they were a decade ago.”

Stuart argues that more families play games together now than ever before, which combined with the growing number of guilds and clans means that games can often provide “a rich source of friendship to young men finding it difficult to cope with the rigours of school society.” The author goes on to discuss the positive aspects of games and mentions a handful of educational games.

Stuart does not totally dismiss Hutton’s points entirely however, adding:

Perhaps part of the reason young men are failing in modern classrooms is that their needs and interests aren't being met by the syllabus, and aren't being understood by an older generation incapable of engaging with, or at least understanding, game culture.


Comments

Re: Columnists Battle Over Impact of Games on Ambitionless ...

Or could it be how we treat them like crap and never let them run there own lives? Eveytime a kid or teen trys to go there own way we stop them and tell them there to young. That kills ambition more then anything.

Re: Columnists Battle Over Impact of Games on Ambitionless ...

 Of course there is a simplier answer.... the number of ambitionless boys is not all that differnt from the past and the author is just using selective memory.

Or perhaps greater access to information has taken some of the facade off the 'american dream' idea and kids are getting disillusioned much earlier then they were in past decades.   Ever since the 90s, the future has felt VERY bleak, which tends to discourge ambition.   

It also does not help that we have had a significant rise in organizations targeting youth segments to preemtivly turn them into uniform voting blocks (the evangelical movement is esp guilty of this)... these movements do a great job of focusing power at a top few, but also tend to have the effect of discouraging the 'cogs' from reaching for more in life.

Re: Columnists Battle Over Impact of Games on Ambitionless ...

Imagine my frustration when, after taking numerous advanced classes and being one of the highest scoring students ever to go to my school... I ended up working the same jobs for the same pay as students who smoked weed all day and didn't even go to class. So I went to college... and you think college is any better? NO! They don't want to hear your ideas, they don't want intelligent discourse.

As you said Neeneko, "It also does not help that we have had a significant rise in organizations targeting youth segments to preemtivly turn them into uniform voting blocks". Even in colleges and universities, the so-called homes of free thought, you must conform. Whether it be to teachers or certain writing styles, if you do not conform, it doesn't matter how interesting or even correct your opinion is.

I failed economics my first run through (first class I ever failed aside from French), largely because I disagreed with the teacher constantly. He told me that Keynesian economics was great. I told him that we are going to hit a major recession within 5 years, and we will continue to hit major recessions every few years as long as we rely on debt and Keynesian economics, because a debt-based, keynesian economy relies on growth to function, and our society has little room for growth at the moment. He told me I was an idiot. That was about 3 years ago.

I bet he's eating his words now. At the very least, I'm sure he hates me. But what I learned from that experience is "if you want to get good marks and get a good job, you must conform". Thanks for the lesson oh great gods of college, I never would have made it in the real world without first having my dreams crushed.

Oh, btw, I play video games. I guess I should post that as a disclaimer because apparently, gaming is the cause of a loss of motivation. Oh yes, games are the cause of all my problems and the source of my lack of motivation, not the fact that I am getting paid slightly above minimum wage despite a college degree I had to pay for.

Here's a fun thought: perhaps games are the only source of motivation I have? The only time I ever feel like I am accomplishing something? Because otherwise I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall of idiots with business degrees who don't know anything about business (short or long-term), marketing, or even customer service.

Re: Columnists Battle Over Impact of Games on Ambitionless ...

Ummm.... loook a the shcool system that basily turns you into a number to be pushed through and poo'd out.....and if they can't slot you in thier limited defined holes you are tossed to the side..........

 

A ineffective and ineffectual school system leads to apathy and and anything is good enough.....


I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/cigital-disobedience/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: Columnists Battle Over Impact of Games on Ambitionless ...

I want a part number... My Father jokes about his all the time. He works for a large corporation and they use the same software to deal with their employees as they do parts. Schools even do this now.

I am thinking employers look at people the same way that you described schools here. If you don't exactly fit their defined hole, you get pushed aside, even if you can do that job.

~Weatherlight~

~Weatherlight~

Re: Columnists Battle Over Impact of Games on Ambitionless ...

WL

Well thats how soemtiems a job works but the school system itself can not function right by doing it that way we need general EDU(real reading,real math,basic science and history,ect) up till the 5th grade then we start focusing on thier skills then by 7th-9th they are on a path to higher learning or vocab training.

 


I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/cigital-disobedience/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Columnists Battle Over Impact of Games on Ambitionless ...

Both articles were a very good read and bring up some questions that must be answered. Personally I deal with trying to define my "self worth" and trying to motivate myself everyday. Society changed, you can no longer show up to work everyday, work hard, and expect things to go well. There is a lot more to it then that, now if I could define it...

~Weatherlight~

~Weatherlight~
 
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E. Zachary KnightCan people really not find anything more productive to do with their time than complain about a Halloween costume? http://newsok.com/article/534367509/19/2014 - 5:30pm
Andrew EisenWhat I find most amazing is the fact that Yiannoppoulos's evidence doesn't in any way support his claim. And I still fail to see the lack of ethics in discussing the ethics surrounding public interest vs. personal privacy.09/19/2014 - 4:13pm
Andrew EisenOh yeah, some outlets sensationalize things (especially with the chosen headline). No argument there. As far as gender issues not being widespread? I'm inclined to disagree but I suppose it depends on what specifically you're talking about.09/19/2014 - 3:43pm
SleakerI think I've been qualitatively informed by those Factual Femenist videos that there isn't reallly a widespread gender issue, and that there are select news outlets that try to sensationalize things.09/19/2014 - 3:37pm
james_fudgeI'm just going to leave this here before someone else does:http://yiannopoulos.net/2014/09/19/gamejournopros-zoe-quinn-email-dump/09/19/2014 - 3:21pm
NeenekoI have met some real jerks and slimeballs in gender activism, but when I hear the idea that there are many 'not nice' people it comes across as code for 'uppity people who do not know their place'.09/19/2014 - 12:10pm
Andrew EisenKrono - Many of the people pushing gender issues aren't nice people? I'm sure not everyone's a sweatheart but so far, everyone I've seen with such a critique had absolutely nothing to back them up.09/19/2014 - 10:46am
InfophileI think there's a qualitative difference between a site and a hashtag though. GP can ban anyone from commenting, so they can have the image they want. But anyone can use any hashtag and try to poison it. Granted, that hasn't happened to the other one yet09/19/2014 - 10:13am
E. Zachary KnightKrono, your comparison to GP does not work. We do not need to get rid of GP, because no one associates GP with trolls and abuse. The same can't be said for gamergate.09/19/2014 - 10:09am
Krono@Michael You don't remember the "other hashtag" because no one actually uses it. We're talking 836,983 uses of #gamergate over it's lifetime, and 8,119 for the "alternative". 47,129 uses on the 18th vs 41. With #notyourshield at 140,133 uses & 5,209 uses09/19/2014 - 9:48am
Kronoresearch it. Changing tags to get away from trolls would be like wiping GamePolitics and restarting under a new name to get away from people calling Jack Thompson a filthy names in the comments section.09/19/2014 - 9:35am
Sleaker@quiknkold - seems like all that page is is a bunch of random developer opinions and rumors that we're supposedto do what with?09/19/2014 - 9:31am
Kronoas an opportunity to push back against them. It's one of the things muddling the issue. @conster A new hashtag would do nothing to improve anything. Trolls will simply follow to the new hashtag, and it will confuse the issue for anyone attempting to09/19/2014 - 9:25am
Krono@Andrew aaah. Yes, I'm sure there's some of that. Part of the problem is many of the people pushing gender issues are not very nice people. Basically the latest incarnation of moralists we've seen in the past couple decades. Naturually some will take this09/19/2014 - 9:23am
quiknkoldhttp://www.nichegamer.net/2014/09/real-gamedevs-sound-off-regarding-the-gamergate-controversy/09/19/2014 - 8:35am
MaskedPixelanteMeanwhile, in news that actually DOES matter, Scotland voted "NO" to Scottish independance.09/19/2014 - 8:20am
ConsterSeriously? "We shouldn't make a new hashtag - it's better to associate ourselves with psychos than to decrease our visibility"?09/19/2014 - 7:54am
Michael ChandraI forget what it is exactly, but there already is another hashtag that some use, exactly to separate themselves from the abusive behaviour. So don't bother lying to me.09/19/2014 - 7:06am
quiknkold2 to 3 or more09/19/2014 - 6:53am
quiknkoldMichael Chandra : I'll say this. The only reason they havent used another hashtag is because it would look like a form of dividing the arguement. Using another Hashtag has come up, and they feel like if they made a new hashtag, it'll split the debate from09/19/2014 - 6:53am
 

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