Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

August 19, 2010 -

According to Politico’s Morning Tech blog, The RIAA, SoundExchange, BMI, The Recording Academy and nine other music groups have sent a letter to Eric Schmidt (Google's CEO) asking for more clarification on what it considers "lawful and unlawful activity on the Web." The question relates to Google and Verizon's proposals to the government on Net Neutrality which was released last week.

In a letter sent to Google yesterday, the groups asked for a more in-depth definition of activity, especially as it relates to "content rights." Here's an excerpt:

"As you well know, music is a powerful driver of broadband adoption and related applications," the letter says. "So, too, the Internet has become a crucial part of the music discovery process and a central platform for commerce…Our ability to invest in and create the next generation of music is grounded on crafting Internet policies and procedures that respect intellectual property."

The groups say that a "strong distinction between legal and illegal online activity is crucial to protecting content rights" and that it believes that "it is vital that any Internet policy initiative permit and encourage ISPs and other intermediaries to take measures to deter unlawful activity such as copyright infringement and child pornography."

 

You can read the whole thing here. It is interesting - but not surprising - that the music industry puts copyright infringement on the same level as child pornography.

Source: Morning Tech


Comments

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

I think it's time for the music industry to ANSWER THIS SAME QUESTION.

If it's so illegal to search for music on google..

 

What about songs dealing with: Drugs, Murder, Cop Killing, Rape, Drive-Bys, etc.

Isn't is the EXACT SAME THING?

Google, the internet, digital music are as responsible for copyright infringment as the music industry is responsible for crimes that happen due to influence from their songs.

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

That argument does not make much sense for searcing for music since the music itself is not illegal.

Now, the argument could be make for kiddy porn.. since it is the only case I can think of where images of a crime being commited are themselves a crime, where as images of, say, drugs murdering cop killing rape etc are not illegal.

Ah, but judges have that wonderful 'complelling interest' exemption that allows them to cancel out any part of the consitution they feel like.

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

Overcast, maybe I'm missing something here, but searching for/listening to/downloading music and the contents of music in general have nothing to do with one another.  You're comparing apples to aardvarks.  So no, it's not the exact same thing.

If you want to make that argument you need to compare the filesharing service (or search engine or whatever) to gun manufacturers.  They provide the means to do something illegal (pirate whatever or shoot someone).  But they're not at fault for what you do with their product.

===============

Chris Kimberley

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Chris Kimberley

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

Wow, there really is no depths to which these scum won't sink. I wish piracy really was destroying them(greed middlemen) and not just a lie they tell politicians to get more protectionist policies in the face of progress.

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

I think the same. Piracy is a problem, but corporations and politicians tend to make the problem bigger that it really is. How is piracy a problem when sales are keep rising with the pass of the years?

Downsales are caused mainly when the product is simple bad or unpopular or when economy is just not on its better moment, so people can´t afford entertainment as much as they want.

Justin Beiber will not die (artistically) by piracy. His career will be put to an end by his own fans who won´t care for him anymore, or because Disney just pulled out another idiot on his place.

 

------------------------------------------------------------ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

I am not even convinced that piracy is actually a 'problem'.  I agree that it occurs, but the 'problem' part always feels a bit manufactured to me.  Legal history is full of people trying to get new powers based on blowing something minor up into a huge issue.

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

It it dose not violite the TOS of the site and law of the land its not unlawfull. As if it was the police and FBI will be knocking at your door.


I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/cigital-disobedience/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

Patreon

Deviantart

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

In other words, if it's not illegal, it's not illegal.

Thank you very much for that valuable insight, Zippy.

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

Well is it so hard to follow those basic rules? And file share,ect is not necessarily illegal at the end of the day its up to the court to decide but many TOS put in a cvaey that basically says no questionable IP/CP on rights grounds . So at the need of the day there is nothing much that can be done other than sue whoever is violating your copy rights,or hire them to work for you.. and get the hits/advertisements/money that all that content ect is getting.


I have a dream, break the chains of copy right oppression! http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/cigital-disobedience/


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

Patreon

Deviantart

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

Why the hell are these companies acting like THEY are the ones who get to set law in this country? Why are the house and senate ok with this usurption, even going so far as to tell the FCC to stay the hell out of it while their corporate paymasters tell us all what the law will be. It makes me sick.

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

Now that corporations can contribute as much as they want to a politician the corporations pretty much ARE the law setters.

I am just as appaled as you are.

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

Really guys?  You putting downloading music and movies on Bittorrent on the same level as child pornography?  Really?  See, shit like that is why the general public doesn't take you seriously.  It's just laughible on its face.

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

Whoa there.  I don't mean to make light of child pornography as an issue when I say this, but I didn't read it as the RIAA putting child pornography and copyright infringement on the same level.  They were merely listing things that are deemed illegal.

I don't think I need to do this, but I will anyway: copyright infringement in the music industry is downright crippling.  I'm not sure of the *exact* statistics, but I know that most of us artists make very little off of record sales, both online and offline.  Add to that the fact that something around 90% of the albums a record company puts out fail to recoup their total costs (much less make a profit), and you've got a pretty terrible business model where the artist almost ALWAYS loses regardless of how hard they work or who they know in the A&R department.

Now add piracy to the mix.

Not only are artists NOT making anything, but the RECORD COMPANIES aren't making anything either!  This robs artists of any financial incentive for putting out records and it removes the financial backing of a record company.

Again, I'm not saying copyright infringement is as bad as child pornography, but it's still wrong.

-steps off his soapbox-

"HEY! LISTEN!"

"HEY! LISTEN!"

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

Again, I'm not saying copyright infringement is as bad as child pornography, but it's still wrong.

Still, there have to be levels of wrong. It´s like saying that shoplifting and murdering are on the same level and need to be prosecuted the same way.

CP should be above of copyright, but of course, copyright gets priority because it´s their money that they are not receiving what is in stake here. CP is just a colateral in this equation.

------------------------------------------------------------ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

"Add to that the fact that something around 90% of the albums a record company puts out fail to recoup their total costs (much less make a profit), and you've got a pretty terrible business model"

That's like saying, "If you shoot yourself in the foot and it gets infected, it's the infection's fault things are so bad and not the fact that you have a gaping wound."

When you have to recoup revenue from other sources to cover your loses in another, you have to stop and rethink what you're doing wrong. IMO, artists should blame the record company first, THEN the pirates.

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

Don't take this the wrong way, but who says artists don't blame the record companies?  Today, there are a great deal more indie record labels than there were decades ago, in no small part due to the inefficiencies of major labels like EMI and Time Warner.  The thing is, not EVERY act the four major labels (and their subsidiaries) pick up are big-name acts; not every record is a multi-million-dollar investment.  The amount of money lost - that 90% "failure" rate - isn't necessarily a gaping-wound-turned-deathblow to the industry, it's merely a statistic.  The artists that DO recoup their costs do so TREMENDOUSLY, supporting the record company as a whole.  Also, record companies make deals with ticket sellers, venues, other multimedia groups, and record studios to increase revenue from other sources, so it's not like they're banking on RIAA lawsuits to foot the bill every time.

But I'm sure you didn't think that to begin with.  ^^

To artists - more accurately, to artists like myself - the act of piracy is more of a breach of an unspoken honor code: you (not you personally!) basically said my countless hours in the studio and days spent on field recordings weren't worth paying for, but you (still impersonal you!) still want the final product anyway.  That's not fair and frankly, it's insulting.

"HEY! LISTEN!"

"HEY! LISTEN!"

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

That's a broad brush, especially to groups like Radihead who began releasign their music for free and allowed people to more or less donate,

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

Well, Radiohead decided to do that with thier own content.  I was about to say 'and no one is saying they should not be able to do that' but then I recalled that the RIAA, SoundExchange, and other groups are actually against that too....

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

Yeah, but Radiohead also tours, has merchandise, and sells other albums.  They are a group that can AFFORD to do something like sell their album for nothing.  

"HEY! LISTEN!"

"HEY! LISTEN!"

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

"I didn't read it as the RIAA putting child pornography and copyright infringement on the same level."

Of course they are; they mention the two things in the same sentence, back-to-back.

"They were merely listing things that are deemed illegal."

It's not a list.  It's exactly two things.  One of which happens to be possibly the single most vile crime there is, and the other of which happens to be their own personal object of derision.

It's an extremely common, and extremely lazy, rhetorical tactic, and in fact it's been used in pretty much every debate over Internet censorship ever: we're trying to fight child pornography; therefore anyone who disagrees with us must be pro-child pornography.

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

They might have to list them together, since there are not that many examples of banned material.  In fact, child porn (or obsenity in general) is the only one I can think of.

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

Then why bother noting an example? It's all about their copyright after all. Now they're just deliberately creating an association.

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

Well, beyond the deliberate association, having an example helps get around the argument that they are asking for unique and unprecedented capabilities that does not apply to any other content or speech.

Re: Music Industry to Google: What is Unlawful Activity?

To be fair, child porn and other sick stuff on torrent sites and P2P programs are pretty sizable problems.

But that's not what this is about.

Bringing it up at all is a retarded attempt to create a tenuous connection between the two in an effort to be taken seriously. It's like the government telling you that smoking pot causes terrorism- using guilt and scaremongering in a way that they feel "could" deter people from it, while ultimately doing jack shit as a solution, and providing an unreasonable basis for making a law against it without addressing the issue that's really bothering them.

 
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TechnogeekThat's a police union.07/07/2015 - 8:43pm
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Goth_SkunkeZeek: No, I do not agree they are union members.07/07/2015 - 7:48pm
E. Zachary KnightTeachers unions are just as bad as police unions, except of course you are far less likely to be killed by a teacher on duty than you are a cop. But they also protect bad teachers from being fired.07/07/2015 - 6:29pm
E. Zachary KnightGoth, so you agree they are still union members. Thankfully we have a first ammendment that protects people from being forced to join groups they don't support (in most cases any way.)07/07/2015 - 6:27pm
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Goth_SkunkeZeek: Non-union employees have no right to attend meetings or union convention/AGM, or influence policy. The only time they get to vote is whether or not to strike.07/07/2015 - 6:24pm
Infophile(cont'd) about non-union police officers being given hell until they joined the union.07/07/2015 - 4:58pm
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james_fudgeCharity starts at home ;)07/07/2015 - 2:49pm
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E. Zachary KnightGoth, if Union dues are automatically withdrawn, then there is no such thing as a non-union employee.07/07/2015 - 2:38pm
Goth_Skunka mutually agreed upon charity instead.07/07/2015 - 2:33pm
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