Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

April 16, 2011 -

Quick recap:

-Sony sued George “Geohot” Hotz for jailbreaking the PS3
-Hotz asked for donations to mount a legal defense, raising enough over a weekend
-Sony and Hotz settled

Since the settlement, there have been quite a few irate comments from the folks who donated that run along the lines of: “Oh what?  You’re just going to pocket the money we donated you stinkin’ nerf herder?!”

Well, no.  As Hotz said back when he asked for the donations, all left over dough would be sent to the Electronic Frontier Foundation and that’s what he’s done.  According to Hotz’s blog, he’s sent a check for $10k to the EFF.

“This money goes to the EFF in hopes that America can one day again be a shining example of freedom, free of the DMCA and ACTA, and that private interest will never trump the ideas laid out in the constitution of privacy, ownership, and free speech.”

Hotz says he’s done working on Sony products but says others can go right on ahead.

“If you piss them off enough for them to pull out the legal team and their million dollar checkbook, worst thing that happens is you have to super swear to never do it again.”

AE: I’d advise anyone who wants to tinker with Sony’s hardware not to take Hotz’s above comment as gospel.  You know, just to be on the safe side.

-Reporting from San Diego, GamePolitics Contributing Editor Andrew Eisen 


Comments

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

Man, this comment thread got off to a great start!

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

I do my best. You're welcome.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

Wait, he's fighting for "privacy, ownership and free speech?"  If so, he wouldn't be hacking in the first place, since the hacks he's working on is pretty much necessary to use the PS3 for piracy.

Oh, wait, I forgot.  Piracy is okay if the victim is a rich person or entity.

---

With the first link, the chain is forged.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

"the hacks he's working on is pretty much necessary to use the PS3 for piracy."

So is electricity.  Why aren't you railing about how the electric company is advocating piracy?

Oh, wait, I forgot.  Using ludicrous, obviously fallacious logic is okay if the victim is a poor person or entity.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

Hmm, maybe because the creation of electricity isn't illiegal, you fucking moron.

AE: These arguments, though heated, have remained remarkably civil.  Let's please try to keep it that way.

---

With the first link, the chain is forged.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

That's circular logic right there, worth of even the "Bible says God exists, God wrote the Bible" diatribe.

Not to mention, throughout history various groups have decried and attempted at outlawing, barring and/or banning such things as: dance, books, television, (video)games, music (especially rock'n'roll), radio, electricity (ohs%¤"!), black rights, free speech, womens rights, I could go on..

 

Not that it matters...

As much as Hotz is an idiot, Sony has proven that you no longer buy physical property, but rent it. That your right to use said property as you see fit are no longer, all thanks to the NOTION that one means of said property use is directly contributory to digital piracy (another fallacy).

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

No, it's not circular logic.  You can't be fighting for ownership OR free speech if the work you're doing that's claiming to make that fight has a primary use of piracy - which is the direct opposite of ownership and free speech.  

Making snide comments like I should have a problem with every little thing that contributes to piracy - such as electricity - is just absolutely fucking moronic, since what Hotz did which contributes to piracy is just as illegal as the piracy itself.  Again, nothing circular there.

Finally, you can't tell me that this is about property rights, because it isn't.  If you want to hack your PS3 in the privacy of your own home, without it connected to the internet, who's going to stop you?  Do you think Sony's going to have a problem with that?  They won't.  They're problem with Hotz is HE'S TELLING OTHER PEOPLE HOW TO DO IT.  HE'S SELLING THE SERVICES TO DO SO.  As has been pointed out, these services make it a hell of a lot easier to pirate with the PS3, another blatantly illegal activity.  That's why they went after him, that's why he would have lost, that's why he settled, and that's why it's no longer about property rights, because Hotz brought it out of the private and into the public.  Property rights only extend as far as your property.

---

With the first link, the chain is forged.

--- With the first link, the chain is forged.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

You can't be fighting for ownership OR free speech if the work you're doing that's claiming to make that fight has a primary use of piracy

Piracy, please, copyright infringement. Also, yes, you can, hence the term hypocritical. Also, you can fight for your rights at the detriment of others... This has often been done. Primary doesn't mean only. And finally, you have yet to establish that his modification makes it so much so more easier to do copyright infringement per opposition to the current state of things and compare THAT amount of people to the people having other uses. THEN you can say which is primary and which isn't.

 

since what Hotz did which contributes to piracy is just as illegal as the piracy itself

Let's assume you mean copyright infringement, in which case it is a status, not a law. Also, whether or not his act was going against the DMCA is not immediately obvious and would have had to have been determined in court. Since that never happened, especially not to the end of due process, you can't say the act was illegal. At best you can claim a belief that it was.

 

hack

Crack.

 

HE'S SELLING THE SERVICES TO DO SO.

At no point did he or his opponents claim that he was selling any service. The fact he was distributing it freely was more than likely an added point that pushed Sony to take actions (right or wrong).


As has been pointed out, these services make it a hell of a lot easier to pirate with the PS3, another blatantly illegal activity.

Pointed out does not mean established. Those services have never had any MEASURED impact on copyright infringement. The rest I've answered above (blatantly heh?).

 

That's why they went after him, that's why he would have lost, that's why he settled, and that's why it's no longer about property rights, because Hotz brought it out of the private and into the public.

Without being there when the decision makers took that decision, you can't speak for why Sony did such and such and without being privy to the discussion of Hotz and his lawyer, you can't speak for why they went after a course and not another. Furthermore, you were not present in the talks between the two parties and have thus no ground to know what was going on there either.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

Piracy, please, copyright infringement.

Your criticism of this usage of the word 'piracy' is four centuries late.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

If only that was true. Sadly, piracy both on sea and, where the term was generalized, on land, still happens quite frequently. Furthermore, copyright infringement shares nearly nothing in common with the act of piracy and can thus not even be properly approximated by it. Even theft is a long shot, but still has more in common with copyright infringement than piracy does. You may shill elsewhere or bring proper arguments for or against ideas submitted. Simply claiming that something is equivalent to something else doesn't make it so, not even with 10 years of PR behind it.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

If only that was true. Sadly, piracy both on sea and, where the term was generalized, on land, still happens quite frequently.

Doesn't matter.

Furthermore, copyright infringement shares nearly nothing in common with the act of piracy and can thus not even be properly approximated by it.

It's called a polyseme. Deal with it.

You may shill elsewhere or bring proper arguments for or against ideas submitted. Simply claiming that something is equivalent to something else doesn't make it so, not even with 10 years of PR behind it.

You've got to be kidding me. Everytime someone disagrees with me about anything at all on this site, I'm accused of 'shilling'. If you don't have any arguments, that can't be disproved by the first paragraph of the appropriate wikipedia page, why don't you just shut the fuck up instead?

Copyright infringement has been commonly called piracy for centuries, while disagreeing with someone is only called 'shilling' by internet trolls. Buy yourself a dictionary

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

Did you said that copyright infirdgement has been called piracy for centuries?

Centuries????????

I suggest you check this further, the definition of piracy is usualy associated with software piracy (i.e such media formats like music, video or software) and last time I checked this media us not "centuries" old. Even thou copyrights have been around for centuries piracy was associatd with the pirates themselves and not with the copyright laws.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

I gave a rather detailed answer about where that claim comes from (thank you Wikipedia) above, yet strangely, he chose to reply to my first post which did not go into details. Oh well.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

I read your take on it and I agree with certain aspects (going further into detail would stray further apart from this article).

I honestly believe the term "piracy" is an overused word made mainstream by the copyright bigots since that's the easiest word to make the culprits look guilty. And no matter what the word and the definition of piracy is here to stay whether we like it or not.

Now do I condone the copyright infridgement or the illegal reproduction of copyrighted material?

Hell no! Some people don't know this but there are real criminal elements involved in this and I am not talking about any regular shmucks copying CDs in their basement to sell it at the local flea market. Those are a small and basicly a miniscule group that is bloated out of proportion by groups such as the RIAA, MPIAA and ESA. And we all know it since they claim that one idiot in the flea market gives them 100 gazillion dollars in loses and 10 billion jobs are loss because of that. Hey those are the numbers they tend to pump out to the media outlets.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

Heh, I have a small indie studio, you don't have to convince me. I will fights for my rights, however, one's rights shouldn't crush another.

The Benjamin Franklin quote is always in my mind when I see those discussions:

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

We can't just allow rights and liberties to be taken period. Every time one is handed over, it is practically impossible to regain later. Inventors and researchers were heavily set back as well as forbidden entry in various countries due to their work not even on breaching copyright, but simply on things related to those or encryption.

Also, DRM do NOT work. They keep an ever decreasing number of copyright breachers from using the softwares while increasingly harming the valid customers. I have close to 600 games on Steam alone. I do not want their services running all the time, disabling my disk emulator (which are quite useful when downloading iso from MSDN) and cause unpredictable issues in general. I have a DSL in Canada. My line cuts at least once per hour. MMO can usually recover without even flinching yet some of those always on DRM keep kicking me out. And that's just the tip of the Iceberg. I am in no way one of those who suffer the most because of this. But if you won't stand for others in their hour of need, you can't expect anyone to stand for you in yours.

Finally, I have a lot of trouble with poor arguments, unsustained ones, strawmen, fallacies, etc. They just rub me the wrong way.

 

Anyway, thanks for your comment :)

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

This again, Dorth? Copyright violators were called "pirates" starting in 1603. And possibly even before that.

Piracy = Copyright Infringement. They are what we like to call "Synonyms". Two different words or phrases with exactly the same meaning.

Stealing = Theft. Theft = Stealing.

Murder = Kill. Kill = Murder.

Hotz = Arrogant ass. Arrogant ass = Hotz.

Although, not all Copyright Infringement can be called Piracy, but all Piracy can be called Copyright Infringement. Unless, of course, you're referring to the Captain Jack Sparrow variety.

It's just a general term used to describe the most common type of Copyright Infringement. They don't use the word "Piracy" in a courtroom, true enough. So you're half-right. But we're not in a courtroom now, are we? 

Now, if we're done arguing semantics, I'd like to continue exercising my first-amendment right to say the word "Piracy", instead of "Copyright Infringement". Especially considering that the form of Copyright Infringement known as "Piracy" was essentially one of the points at the core of this particular case.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

Yes. In one pamphlet of propaganda written by someone who ended up in jail a good party of his life. He did say:

" But those Goblins whom I now am co[n]iuring vp, haue bladder-cheekes puft out like a Swizzers breeches (yet being prickt, there comes out nothing but wind) thin-headed fellowes that liue upon the scraps of inuention and trauell with such vagrant soules, and so like Ghosts in white sheets of paper, that the Statute of Rogues may worthily be sued vpon them, because their wits haue no abiding place, and yet wander without a passe-port. Alas, poore wenches (the nine Muses!) how much are you wrongd, to haue such a number of Bastards lying vpo[n] your hands? But turne them out a begging; or if you cannot be rid of their Riming company (as I thinke it will be very hard) then lay your heauie and immortall curse vpon them, that whatsoeuer they weaue (in the motley-loome of their rustie pates) may like a beggers cloake, be full of stolne patches, and yet neuer a patch like one another, that it may be such true lamentable stuffe, that any honest Christian may be sory to see it. Banish these Word-pirates, (you sacred mistresses of learning) into the gulfe of Barbarisme: doome them euerlastingly to liue among dunces: let them not once lick their lips at the Thespian bowle, but onely be glad (and thanke Apollo for it too) if hereafter (as hitherto they haue alwayes) they may quench their poeticall thirst with small beere. Or if they will needes be stealing your Heliconian Nectar, let them (like the dogs of Nylus,) onely lap and away. For this Goatish swarme are those (that where for these many thousand yeares you went for pure maides) haue taken away your good names, these are they that deflowre your beauties. These are those ranck-riders of Art, that haue so spur-gald your lustie wingd Pegasus, that now he begins to be out of flesh, and (euen only for prouander-sake) is glad to shew tricks like Bancks his Curtall. O you Bookes-sellers (that are Factors to the Liberall Sciences) ouer whose Stalles these Drones do dayly flye humming; let Homer, Hesiod, Euripides, and some other mad Greekes with a band of the Latines, lye like musket-shot in their way, when these Goths and Getes set vpon you in your paper fortifications; it is the only Canon, vpon whose mouth they dare not venture, none but the English will take their parts, therefore feare them not, for such a strong breath haue these chese-eaters, that if they do but blow vpon a booke they imagine straight tis blasted;"

Mind you, this is only an excerp, it goes on in both direction. So yes. Word-pirates. And Goblins. Ang Ghosts. And Bastards. And Goths. And Getes. And Goatish Swarms... I could go on really, but I guess the gist of my point is that since that was basically part of a flow of every insult he could think, we hardly see this as the origin of the name. Still nice use of Wikipedia. Onwards to the second known use of the term:

"As for answers, banters, true English Billingsgate, I expect them till nobody will buy, and then the shop will be shut. Had I wrote it for the gain of the press, I should have been concerned at its being printed again and again by Pirates, as they call them, and Paragraphmen : but if they do justice, and print it true, according to the copy, they are welcome to sell it for a penny, if they please: the pence, indeed, is the end of their works."

written in 1703. Mind you, the writer does say "as they call them", hinting to a general used name, however, the next use of the name we find in... 1980! And until the PR of the 1990s and 2000s, the term had little to no traction.

 

But OK. Fine. Use the term if you want. You still have EVERY other points in my counter-argument to answer...

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

A) I never said I disagreed with you. I'm just saying that "Piracy" is indeed a generalized term for a certain form of copyright infringement. In casual conversation and debate, you can interchange the two at will. It's only when you're referring to it in a courtroom should you use the term "Copyright Infringement" exclusively. And considering the fact that we are not in a courtroom, but a public forum, many people just use the term "Piracy" because it's both easier to speak, and easier to type. There's no need to go all English Police here. You can use "Copyright Infringement" all you like, because yes, it IS the legal wording, but don't get all in a huff because someone else wants to use a general, shorter term for the same thing.

B) Arguing the facts of the case is pointless right now because, well... The case is over.

Sony sued Hotz for distributing methods for circumventing the copyright protection on the PS3, which is, according to the DMCA, illegal. That's what we all know as fact.

Sony and Hotz settled. Why? We'll never know for sure. But the leaked terms of the settlement do seem rather one-sided.

We can argue that it was because Sony intimidated Hotz with their fancy lawyers.

We can argue that Hotz was guilty of wrongdoing, and just took the easiest way out.

We can agree to disagree until the next arrogant ass decides that he's above the law, or until the class-action lawsuits against Sony for removing OtherOS are cleared. Can't wait to see how those go, by the way.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

Also, GM is trying to get people killed in car accidents. If they weren't, they wouldn't build cars, because cars are pretty much necessary to get killed in a car accident.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

Dear god please stop trying to sound smart.

I can't believe you could come with such a argument. It is a laughable statement and you should be ashamed. Might as well say that guns kill people while you're at it.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

That's some very twisted logic there, buddy.

As for point c), I think you're full of shit. It's easy to be the Internet tough guy until the anvil drops on you.

-- http://pixelantes.blogspot.com/

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

Oh no. You caught me. Please don't let the bad men get me! I'm so scared!

...Not.

Take my word for what you will, but I always uphold my word. But fortunately for me, I'm not nearly as arrogant as Hotz is, and will most likely not be sued by a multinational corporation. If it came down to it, I'm confident enough that I can defend myself. However, I'm humble enough to accept when I'm proven wrong, so if it turns out that I am guilty of wrongdoing, I will gladly admit defeat.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

Chances are that you're not a lawyer with too much free time, and that you don't have tens of thousands of dollars to spare. So no, you probably can't defend yourself.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

So I can't defend myself because I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not obscenely wealthy? I can't cite specific cases off the top of my head, but I know there's plenty of cases where poor people have successfully taken on large corporations with nary a penny to their name.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

How will you pay a lawyer without money?

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

Really?? You're asking this question??

You can represent yourself on a case like this and you know very well that there are thousands of cases you can check. From small claims to grand jury cases there are cases all over the world. There is also another option where a lawyer wil represent free of charge. Yes there are also cases like this and not all lawyers are spineless vultures.

Just because someone is broke it doesn't mean he/she is doomed to loose.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

His arrogance was out there for all to see in that YouTube rap. Kind of saw the settlement coming at that point. Especially after all that talk, I'd have much rather seen him finish what he started. Add to that his little trip. He clearly didn't care all that much if he was willing to leave the continent for a little R&R. 

Though it may never have matched Sony's fat wallet, it's clear that he had community support. After all, he had enough to defend himself after a mere weekend of accepting donations. If he kept going, he could have gotten tons of cash to throw to his lawyers as things wore on.

Yeah, it's easy to say things from an outside perspective, but I'd like to hope that in a case like this, conviction would be a stronger motivator than what the law says is right and wrong.

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Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

That's a lot of arrogance coming from a guy who folded like a cheap suit. I wouldn't take anything Hotz says as gospel.

What I just read translates to me as "Don't take my word for it, but being sued by Sony is fun! You have to try it for yourself!".

Idiot.

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

i agree, and the fact i haven't been sued has little baring on it.

if we don't fight for ourselves, and just fold over, than the example is then set that we're all cowards and just going to back down.

sacrifices must be made for the greater good, its a long forgotten belief sadly, and now if it isn't instant gratification, well, then the gov/corps can have it as far as most go.

two quotes really apply here

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance"

and

"give me freedom, or give me death"

till these words are realized again, we're all pretty much just a buncha cowards behind the keyboards, as such, i hope Anon's fight goes well and lasts long. At least they aren't giving in so quickly.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

That is a lot of crap to give from someone who hasn't been sued by a multinational corporation. You would have been talking settlement from the moment you were served.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

A) Your argument is invalid, because I, personally, would not be stupid enough to do what Hotz did.

B) For some reason, I highly doubt you, yourself have been sued by a multinational corporation. Again, your argument is invalid.

C) Don't dare to assume what I will and will not do. Even if I WERE in Hotz's shoes, I would use every penny of the donated money, and I would defend my rights into poverty if I had to. I am not afraid of Sony and their lawyers.

D) Hotz doesn't have anyone to blame but himself for what happened. Like I said, he is a man of pure arrogance, and he just couldn't hold up when real people stand up to him. It's easy to be so cocky from behind a keyboard, isn't it?

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

A) The argument is valid, though it is a hypotheticial situation.

B) No, very few people have. But Jammie Thomas-Rasset has, and that train-wreck has reportedly crushed her life without even finishing yet.

C) I do believe you could fight Sony in that situation, but to quote you "It's easy to be so cocky from behind a keyboard, isn't it?"

D) ...Agreed.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

A) Hypothesis =/= fact.

B) Then let Jammie herself come in here and berate me.

C) It is easy to be cocky from behind a keyboard. I'm not asking anyone to believe me. I'm just calling it how I see it. It's just fortunate for me that I'm incredibly unlikely to be sued by anyone.

D)...Agreeing is fun, isn't it?

"Power means nothing without honor and pride."

http://grifsgamereviews.blogspot.com My video game review site.

Re: Geohot Donates Legal Defense Fundraiser Leftovers to EFF

"Hypothesis =/= fact."

Oh boy, I am going to be quoting that back at you all day.

 
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