Jimquisition: Used Games Have a Right to Exist

September 28, 2011 -

On this week's episode of the "Jimquisition" on The Escapist, the outspoken Destructoid editor Jim Sterling takes aims at the claims by publishers and developers that buying used game is tantamount to committing an act of piracy. His basic point is that used games have a right to exist and are not evil just because publishers decided they weren't getting their fair share of GameStop's profits.

Watch it to your left, or go native at The Escapist.


Comments

Re: Jimquisition: Used Games Have a Right to Exist

I think he's speaking about a general sense of disdain publishing companies have towards used game sales and how compliant gamers tend to be toward the situation. I could think of a few publishing companies that I'm sure would love to do some pretty evil stuff, but aren't going to admit to wanting to do it.

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Managing Editor at TheBestGameSiteEver.com

Re: Jimquisition: Used Games Have a Right to Exist

>claims by publishers and developers that buying used game is tantamount to committing an act of piracy.

Claims never made ever in the history of time.

>His basic point is that used games have a right to exist and are not evil just because publishers decided they weren't getting their fair share of GameStop's profits.

A view never, at any stage, challenged by the games industry.

The only thing ever said by the games biz on the matter of used games is the following:

"We have identified a thing that exists called 'Used Games'. How can we get people to buy our 'New Games' instead of their 'Used Games?"

This is no different, in any way, shape, or form, to

"We have identified a thing that exists called 'Games Made By Activision, Such As Call Of Duty'. How can we get people to buy our 'Games Made By Electronic Arts' instead of their 'Games Made By Activision, Such As Call Of Duty'?"

or

"We have identified a thing that exists called 'Films'. How can we get people to buy our 'Games' instead of their 'Films'?"

or even

"We have identified a thing that exists called 'Supermarket Own Brand Coffee'. How can we get people to buy our 'Nescafe' instead of their 'Supermarket Own Brand Coffee'?"

People really need to grow up on the matter. Just because a member of the games industry mentions in passing something tangentially related to money, a bit, kinda doesn't mean that they're out to screw people over.

Re: Jimquisition: Used Games Have a Right to Exist

You are wrong in so many ways.

On the Piracy and USed games front we have Mike West of Fable 3 fame:

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2011/05/18/fable-iii-developer-calls-used-ga...

Piracy these days on PC is probably less problematic than second-hand sales on the Xbox

But, as I say, second-hand sales cost us more in the long-run than piracy these days.

On the developers wanting a cut of used sales we have Quantic Dream's Guillaume de Fondaumiere

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2011/09/12/quantic-dream-we-lost-millions-us...

I can take just one example of Heavy Rain - we basically sold to date approximately two million units, we know from the trophy system that probably more than three million people bought this game and played it. On my small level it's a million people playing my game without giving me one cent. And my calculation is, as Quantic Dream, I lost between €5 and €10 million worth of royalties because of second hand gaming.

Well I'm not so sure this is the right approach and I think that developers and certainly publishers and distributors should sit together and try to find a way to address this. Because we're basically all shooting ourselves in the foot here. Because when developers and publishers alike are going to see that they can't make a living out of producing games that are sold through retail channels, because of second hand gaming, they will simply stop making these games.

Then we have the whole Online Pass effort from developers and publishers forcing used game buyers to pay money to access content that had previously been offered to all players whether new or used.

Both views are very common in the industry. Not all the comments on the topic make the news, but if you follow the comments on sites like Gamasutra, you will see these views expressed regularly.

Re: Jimquisition: Used Games Have a Right to Exist

I have no trouble with used sell but I would like to see a %10 levy on it so the same levy can be placed on digital downloads.

Then you focus copyright not on distribution but on distribution based on monetary gain exempting search sites as long as they limit search of key words like file sharing, torrent, torrents IE it will block sites marked for file sharing.


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: Jimquisition: Used Games Have a Right to Exist

That's absolutely insane. Maybe we should do the same for other goods too? How about second hand clothing or furniture? The arguments for it are just as invalid for that as it is for games. There is no justification for placing a levy on used game sales at all. Secondly, you have made it quite clear in your comments on this site that you have no clue about the purpose and intent of copyright, so stop trying to pretend you know how to solve the problems surrounding it.

Let me make this perfectly clear: Copyright is not for the benefit of authors and artists, it is for the benefit of the proliferation of more art and knowledge through the incentive of temporary monopolies. It is not, and it never was, intended to provide a business model for artists, authors, and publishers to generate revenue.

Then you go on to suggest that we censor the internet to support these ridiculous business models, thus violating freedom of speech? "Oh shit! We can't maintain absolute control over how people use content, so we'll just get the government to piss on the constitution in order to grant us carte blanche powers to censor anything we don't like!"

You are just the worst kind of person.

-Greevar

"Paste superficially profound, but utterly meaningless quotation here."

Re: Jimquisition: Used Games Have a Right to Exist

And the same levy goes to books, movies, cds?

If not, why not? What makes games special, the others are copyrighted media as well.

 

Re: Jimquisition: Used Games Have a Right to Exist

Not just games but film/music and games, books depreciate to fast to make it worth while, tho toss in digital storage devices such as hard drives, flash drives CD/DVD/BR burners, internet from ISPs, then toss in literature if you want. I don't really care as long as a system is set up that is based on fair use plus a rule that if its traded for free without compensation for handling/hosting or being a middle man or indexing of information leading to illicit whole copies(shut down torrent indexing sites and search systems that hunt mostly for pirated goods that gain money from ad rev,donations and any other get rich quick scheme) then maybe we can get some sanity back to copy right while paying the system and powers that be to take the tree out of their ass and allow free based sharing.

 

A shame what we will get is oppression and fascism in the form of a take down notice.

 

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

 
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Michael ChandraYou want a debate? Build a wall between you and the poisoned well. Make clear you despise it, despise the behaviour. Then get into the other issues you are troubled with, and don't say a single word again about the poisoned well.09/19/2014 - 3:46am
Michael ChandraAnd someone claiming #notyourshield was to be taken serious, when chatlogs show they wanted it going to hide even more harassment behind? Yeah, not buying a word you're saying. You poisoned your own well.09/19/2014 - 3:45am
Michael Chandraallegedly fired over giving a game a mediocre review and the company threatened to pull ads? Sorry but I ain't buying this.09/19/2014 - 3:45am
Michael ChandraBut people arguing this is horrible and just about ethics, even though there's very little support that journalistic integrity was actually violated here, while they never spoke up when a journalist was09/19/2014 - 3:43am
Michael ChandraIf people start with condemning the way GamersGate was used as a misdirection, then use a better hashtag, that would work in convincing me they mean it.09/19/2014 - 3:43am
Andrew EisenOoo, this one came down to the wire! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/749082525/nefarious09/19/2014 - 1:03am
Andrew EisenI don't doubt that many are truly interested in journalistic integrity. The problem I'm often seeing is they seem to have no idea how or where to talk about it.09/18/2014 - 11:46pm
Andrew EisenDidn't word that well. Busy at work. I've seen people claim that GamerGate is solely about ethics and transparency in games journalism and then go on to show that what they're really after is silencing those who talk about gender issues in games.09/18/2014 - 11:45pm
Kronodebate. Becaus apparently people who only post on Reddit are supposed to police twitter before they're allowed to question anything about the people involved.09/18/2014 - 10:40pm
KronoI highly doubt many, if any are using journalistic integrity as a cover for harassment. The people harassing are essentially trolls. They aren't interested in subtle. More often it's othe other way around. People use "but X is being harassed" to shut down09/18/2014 - 10:38pm
Andrew EisenAnd exacerbating everything is the fact that all the cries of ethics violations have been obnoxious and easily proven false.09/18/2014 - 8:59pm
Andrew EisenProblem is, I would imagine, the sheer number of people who are using journalistic integrity as a cover for their harassing actions or only bringing it up on the false pretense of journalistic integrity.09/18/2014 - 8:47pm
Andrew EisenHaving said that, I can certainly see how one would be frustrated if they truly just wanted to talk about journalistic integrity and someone said they were one of the people harassing Sarkeesian, Quinn and others (though I've seen no examples of that).09/18/2014 - 8:44pm
KronoThat's been the common refrain, that talk of journalism ethics is just an excuse to harass people.09/18/2014 - 8:44pm
KronoLines like "like a partial compromise with the howling trolls who’ve latched onto ‘ethics’ as the latest flag in their onslaught against evolution and inclusion." are taring everyone questioning the ethics as a harasser.09/18/2014 - 8:43pm
Andrew EisenKrono - Except, none of the articles were talking about gamers complaining about journalist ethics, let alone called them white male misogynists. They were talking about the gamers who were harassing others.09/18/2014 - 8:36pm
Kronomakes plenty of sense. It's rather hard to dismiss someone as a white guy running a sock puppet when they've posted proof they're a woman, or black, or another minority.09/18/2014 - 8:32pm
Kronothat any critics of journalists were white guys that hated women, and could be dismissed as such. It seems to have helped some. It's kind of difficult to maintain the white guy narrative in the face of a bunch of women and non-white guys. So the tag09/18/2014 - 8:32pm
Kronothat, someone vented on a #gamergate 4chan thread about being dismissed like that. The suggestion they got in return was to organize their own hashtag in response, with #NotYourShield being suggested. Thus the tag came into use to combat the undercurrent09/18/2014 - 8:32pm
Kronomuch more general problem. And while several of the articles were fairly tame, they spured a bunch of people to dismiss any critics of the journalism involved as misogynistic men. Usually with insults aimed at the geek stereotype. After about a week of09/18/2014 - 8:32pm
 

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