#GamerGate.
It's a hashtag you may have seen on Twitter or discussed in countless news and opinion pieces at various websites, both enthusiast and mainstream. It's a movement, a collection of like-minded and passionate people banding together in order to achieve an end.
What end is that, you ask?
You tell us! Vote in this week's poll and tell us what #GamerGate is all about. If the true meaning is not among the response options, let us know your thoughts in the comments below.
EZK and I will discuss this topic and reveal the poll results on this weekend's episode of Super Podcast Action Committee. We'll be streaming live here on GamePolitics at 6p PST Saturday night. We hope to see you there!
"vote label" © Tribalium / Shutterstock. All rights reserved, used with permission.
-Reporting from San Diego, GamePolitics Contributing Editor Andrew Eisen




Comments
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Trolls, misogyny, sexism.
Because if the people behind GamerGate really cared about ethics in journalism, they would've said something long before they decided to start the blame game on the words of a (possible) jilted ex-lover.
Edit: Down vote me all you want, as eventually you lot will get bored and drift away, hopefully for good.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Read the letters section of any videogame magazine dating all the way back to the Super Nintendo era and any letters section of any gaming site once they got on the internet and you will find plenty, puh-lenty of gamers worried about possible unethical practices by videogame journalists. From pay for good reviews to supporting particular game systems.
The reason it has blown up now is because this is the first time journalists responded by accusing gamers of being women-haters and all around monsters, instead of handling it the way they used to. Which was to assure the readers that the publication had the gamers best interest at heart and would not do anything so unseemly as to accept compensation for favorable treatment. They made sure the readers knew that their integrity was not for sale and that they appreciated the readers and the hobby of gaming too much to do anything like that.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Read any gaming forum, or simply play any MMO or FPS, over the last 15 years, and you will see plenty of gamers who are trolls, misogynists, etc. The reason it has blown up now is because it has been simmering for such a long time, yet gamers feel they're entitled to have a hissy fit when they've once again been called out for their behavior.
So what do they do? Blame the victims, blame journalists, blame everybody but themselves. Amazing how they want to force ethics and integrity upon journalists, but then ignore the mirror.
No, gaming journalists are not the problem. Gamers are the problem, and have been for a long, long time.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
"...yet gamers feel they're entitled to have a hissy fit when they've once again been called out for their behavior." - This minority of which you speak is only a subset of the majority who don't conduct themselves that way. You seem to be under the impression that there is only one kind of person with a single motivation to get behind this issue. Just because they're often the loudest, don't be fooled into thinking they represent everyone. Gamers aren't the problem. Journalists aren't the problem. Dumb, shitty people conducting themselves in abhorrent ways are the problem, whether that be some trolls on one side or dodgy game journalists/devs on the other. But I guess it's easier to pick a side which has an element you hate the most, lump them all under the same banner and forego a nuanced debate about the actual issues.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
What's more likely? Gamers are angry at having journalists accuse them of hating women when calling out what they see as possible corruption? Or that gamers have all been secretly hiding the fact that they hate women for 15 years and this was the moment they all saw to attack a woman most people knew little to nothing about, all while twirling their mustaches and laughing maniacally? Your scenario simply stretches credulity.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Can you honestly not see how counterproductive it is to blame all gamers for this crap? People who might otherwise agree with you see this as an unfair attack on them, and go on the defensive. For many, the hissy fit is probably not from being called out on their behavior, it's from once again being called out on things they didn't even do.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Can you honestly not see how counterproductive it is to blame game journalists for a problem that doesn't exist? To blame game journalists as a cover for misogyny and sexism?
Can gamers honestly not see that the shitstorm that started this whole thing, with Zoe Quinn, should be a non-issue? Can gamers really not admit that if this was Joe Quinn and he supposedly slept with several female journalists that he'd be getting praise and high-fives from the same crowd and zero fucks would be given about ethics and integrity?
Again (and for the final time), the problem is gamers, not everybody else. The real victims here are everybody else, not gamers.
If gamers want to fix the problem, then then need to deal with their fellow gamers, not blame everybody else for behavior that they should've been forcefully called out on long before now.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
"...if this was Joe Quinn and he supposedly slept with several female journalists that he'd be getting praise and high-fives from the same crowd..." - He'd only be getting this from the same kind of people who think it's also okay to threaten the likes of Zoe and Anita. The same kind of gamer you seem the think represents them all. The same people who are called out all day every day just about everywhere they show their faces. Don't paint the people raising legitimate concerns about the issue of ethics with the same broad strokes.
"If gamers want to fix the problem, then then need to deal with their fellow gamers..." - If someone comes here and posts something untoward, what happens? They are quickly and harshly brought down a peg by either other users, or in some cases moderators. The same goes for pretty much any community. These minorities will always persist but their views are always challenged openly and publicly. They are also a separate issue to the one of ethics in games journalism. I can't stress this last point enough.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
It's not about "blaming everybody else" for the trolls, it's about not wanting to be blamed for the trolls when you are not one. Again, just take your whole argument and replace "gamers" and "trolls" with "muslims" and "terrorists", if you need help seeing how ignorant and offensive what you're saying is.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Thank you to everyone for being civil and have actual conversations. It is greatly appreciated :)
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
And thank you for not shutting discussion down like so many other websites do. That's one of the most damning things out there.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Well the problem is that for some reason, A LOT of commentors can't remain civil when discussing people like Zoe Quinn or Anita. There are always flames on the internet, but for some reason those two seem to attract the worst of the worst just flooding the comment sections with un-constructive and abusive vile. That's just from discussing the two; you write an article that's positive about them and it will only get worst. Really, the trolls effectively drown out any kind of constructive conversation to be had and It becomes a lot to put up with. GP doesn't seem to get much of that since it probably get's less traffic from the trolls
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Fair enough, I haven't seen the threads that get closed so I can't say much of the content of the ones that get shut down.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Gamepolitics own James Fudge was part of the GameJournoPros list. So how much honest debate can we expect on this here at Gamepolitics?
I haven't seen any explanation of his involvement so even having a conversation on gamepolitics seems like it is likely just an opportunity for censorship and more propagandizing by Game journalists who should be behaving to the journalism code of ethics.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
I can only recall one instance that anyone of GP has silenced someone from speaking their mind, and that was Jack Thompson.
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Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
I can recall at least one other, easily, but he was frequently told that he was off-topic or bringing up accusation that were barely coherent without any supporting fact numerous times prior and, even then, it was often just an editing of the most egregious parts. Even now, he often rethread those ideas, but since he's calmed down, he's barely warned nowadays, even less censored or banned.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
His messages didn't strike me as scandalous in the least. If anything actions speaks louder. I don't recall any discussion being shutdown, only calls for civility from those having them. James, EZK, and Andrew have all engaged in the discussion and frequently with those who having opposing view points. That should be worthy of some respect, and at very least means your interpretation his comments in those emails is in conflict with reality.
Should you be in doubt there is an archive of articles and comments for you to confirm it. Anyway, what you're suggesting is little more than guilt by association (assuming of course their is any guilt to be had in this).
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
I love these sorts of comments. "Isn't it true that you're a games journalist? And isn't it true that you associate...WITH OTHER GAMES JOURNALISTS?! CONFESS, BLACKGUARD!"
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Clearly you have read the emails and have formed an opinion of your own. That's your right, but don't ask me to defend against what you believe to be the truth. There will be no mea culpa from me on anything I have written.
Debate is always welcomed here - but regular readers already know that. Assuming that you aren't a regular reader, I encourage you to stick around and join in on the conversation.
Best,
James
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Gamepolitics own James Fudge was part of the GameJournoPros list.
A fact that James has disclosed multiple times on this site and on Twitter.
So how much honest debate can we expect on this here at Gamepolitics?
No less than we have always had.
I haven't seen any explanation of his involvement
I guess you haven't been looking.
so even having a conversation on gamepolitics seems like it is likely just an opportunity for censorship and more propagandizing
Based on what?
Game journalists who should be behaving to the journalism code of ethics
Do you have evidence of James's lack of ethics?
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
By saying that the people who use the hashtag are "like-minded", you kind of contradict the only honest answer to the poll: that it depends on who is using it.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
I filtered out ironic and/or shitposting uses of the tag for purposes of the poll.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
It was original the 4chan exposure of the Zoe Quinn Scandal, then some people started using it not knowing what it was and they'll continue using it forever just because.
Basically stupid people started using it wrong, and now it doesn't mean anything.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Mind explaining the scandal part? Cause it sounded like it was just that she slept with a bunch of guys, which isn't that terrible of a thing.
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Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Well, for the Zoe Quinn scandal part, it takes some explaining, but the quinnspiracy as it was called at the time goes something like this. A couple months ago, her boyfriend Eron dumped her. About a month ago, he made a long tumblr post explaining why he dumped her with various screenshots of facebook chat logs and cellphone text messages as evidence for his allegations. The general gist being that she was a hypocritical liar and manipulator who amongst other things, cheated on him with 5 different guys over the course of their relationship. As such, you really shouldn't trust her.
It likely would have been likely ignored, except one of the people who she cheated on Eron with, was Nathan Grayson, a gaming journalist currently working for Kotaku, who'd previously highlighted her game in an article he wrote for Rock, Paper, Shotgun, and who'd written an article about a game jam she'd ended, the second article being just prior to his romantic involvment with her.
When people wished to discuss this bit of nepotism, they were met with widespread deleting of posts pretty much everywhere. Only 4chan managed to discuss it, despite threads being deleted there as well. Then someone did a youtube video about Eron's post, which received a DMCA take down, apparently from Zoe, for the use of an image of Depression Quest in the video. Which only fueled the growing outrage at discussion being surpressed, and a bunch of people asked TotalBiscuit, a popular youtube reviewer who has spoken strongly against using the DMCA as a tool of censoring criticism in the past, his opinion on the video removal. You can read his pretty neutral response here: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s4nmr1/
That got some posts on reddit's r/gaming that weren't deleted for once, but were heavily moderated. As in the r/gaming post on the subject featured someone turning on the automoderater, and over 24,000 comments were deleted, regardless of content. Most of their justifications for that rang fairly hollow in the face of the ensuring outrage, and widespead refusal to let people discuss the issue on reddit, or other popular gaming sites with message boards.
The upshot of the outrage being that people did even more investigating in Zoe which turned up a couple other questionable things.
The first being that back when her game Despression Quest got greenlit for steam, it received support from people being sympathetic to her alleging harassment from a board named Wizardchan. Upon scrutiny however, her allegations which were reported as fact in several places, and reportedly resulted in some harassment of Wizardchan, were rather short on real evidence and no one bothered to do any investigating or get any confirmation. This prompted escapistmagazine.com to update their article on the subject to reflect that these were allegations from Zoe, not confirmed facts.
The second being that she'd allegedly screwed over The Fine Young Capitalists, who were reported on by Gamepolitics back in March, and practically no one else because Zoe misunderstood their policies, bashed them on twitter as exploitative and transphobic, resulting in many of her followers doing the same. After which, people were unwilling to report on them as their investigations ended at seeing a bunch of accusations of them being exploitative and transphobic. This prompted 4chan's /v/ board to throw a bunch of support to TFYC, and the general discussion helped them get sufficient press coverage to get things off the ground. You can read an interview that includes TFYC's discussion of the issue here: http://apgnation.com/archives/2014/09/09/6977/truth-gaming-interview-fin... (They've since met their funding goal.)
Zoe for her part refused to address the initial allegations, and claimed this was just an attempt to get people to harass her and has maintained that stance since then.
There's more to the story, but those are the main points you're likely to see brought up. Most of the rest is either trolling or wild allegations.
Kotaku confirmed that Nathan Grayson had indeed been involved with Zoe in the timeframe that Eron specified, while rejecting the claim that it had affected the article he'd written that had included Zoe. Kotaku, Polygon, Destructoid, and The Escapist Magazine updated their disclosure/ethics policies in response to problems raised by scrutiny of Grayson, and things might have died there if some people hadn't managed to throw gasoline on the fire, but that's getting into the large #gamergate issue.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Allegedly she used that to gain favors and further her career, there's also a GoFundMe page she runs, plus from what I heard she was going to start some kind of event thing using KickStarter but she took the money and walked, and did something to smear another event begin run by a different group.
A guy on Youtube who calls himself the internet aristocrat talks a lot about it i na few videos.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
As a point of record, while it's natural the claim would arise given her involvement with a journalist that provided her with positive coverage; the claim that she did anything specifically to gain favors isn't supported by the evidence, or the claims made by Eron.
I don't recall any claims involving her and GoFundMe. Are you perhaps thinking of Patreon? Different service, and nothing wrong with her having one. The problems only arise when journalists reporting on her are regularly giving her money via the service and fail to disclose that fact.
The KickStarter thing is likely you confusing criticism for her desire to run a game jam. Specifically in the wake of a failed game jam back in March (the one Nathan Grayson wrote about), Zoe wanted to try running her own, and launched a webpage for it back in April. It has no start date, no venue, no judges, and basically no organization of any sort. Rather than attempt to gather funds for it through KickStarter or Indiegogo where it would be easy to track, she's accepting donations for it through paypal, which appear go to her personal paypal account. Unsurprisingly, people are critical of this.
The "smear a different group thing" was the whole thing with The Fine Young Captialists.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Ahh, a correction, there was some KickStarter thing she was apparently involved in. Specifically this:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/glorioustrainwrecks/glorious-develo...
Apparently she was supposed to make one of the one of the rewards for higher level backers and either never actually delivered, or only partially delivered.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
I never really tried to untangle gamergate. It is so hard to find actual FACTS about what happened. In general, There are so many people who will latch on to anything negative that is said about something that they don't like and they will repeat it even when there isn't any proof that what they heard was true. Basically the spread around rumors and then people start treating the rumors as facts. And this isn't helped by all the people who make assumptions about the motivations about the person, speaking on a level as if they know them personally.
Like I think i recall it being said she slept with Journalists to get positive reviews for her game, but those positive reviews didn't actually exist. Could it be that she simply LIKED the guy, and people are just drawing false assumptions from her private actions? Honestly, between the vile and hateful comments and the spread of rumors its hard to tell what's true or not
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Also the sites that have been shutting down any and all discussion about this, including Reddit.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
And we all know that if someone on YouTube says it, it has to be true. Unless that person is Anita Sarkeesian, then she is a lying scumbag.
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Well, everyone knows facts are only truthful when they already fit your expectation, so stories about women using their sexual wiles to manipulate men into doing their bidding must be real, but feminism is just a plot against men doesn't exist so that other stuff is made up.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
I more got the impression that she stopped sleeping with one specific guy and then he made up a bunch of stuff.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
And she made up what kind of stuff...?
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Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Neeneko said "he" meaning the jilted ex-boyfriend.
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
OK Game Devs
Random Tower
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
That's pretty much it, yes.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
However, it is quite telling that there's a much larger explosion over ethics this time around than there was with Gerstmann. The Gerstmann case* was a very clear example of problems in the industry. But it doesn't blow up until it involves a woman and sex (and no actual corruption)? Yeah, telling. There are certainly people involved now who just care about the ethics, but it seems to me they've been tricked into hitching their horses onto a pretty damn sexist bandwagon.
Kind of like the Tea Party, actually. They claimed that they cared about balancing the budget. However, they didn't form during the Bush presidency, when the national debt was exploding. But as soon as a black Democrat was made President, that's when they started to care about the budget.
*In a nutshell, Gerstmann gave a mediocre review to a game (6/10). The developers of the game complained about it to Gamespot (Gerstmann's employer) and threatened to pull advertising and access, and Gamespot's management (who Gerstmann says were relatively inexperienced) panicked and fired him.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
The problem here wasn't the "sex" it was the sudden rush to coverup and the rush to shutdown any discussion. With Gerstmann the Gamers could discuss and vent. But here? Yeah since we all know about the GamesJournosPro list go look at what Kuchera was seeking to do there. That's the scandal. What is it they say? The coverup is worse than the crime, and will call more attention. They followed up the censoring with the suicidal assault on their readers, their consumers. The people who's eyeballs they make their money from. And it just seems that wherever you turn it looks worse and worse. This is a site that was founded dealing with issues of law related to gaming. It grew out of the Jack Thompson fight. James Fudge was heroic in that. Yet why is asking to take a critical look at the practices of the games journalists so abhorrent? Yes it came out of a sex scandal. The sex scandal was we literally caught the games journalist in bed with an indy developer that he provided coverage on. Now Totilo says no violation occured. True or not (I kinda feel not) it is borderline enough that a conversation is warranted. Instead we got "Gamers are Dead" and "Gamers Don't Need to Be Your Audience". While Gamers get screamed at and accused of being Misogynistic Privileged White Male Trolls from every angle (something they are getting quite sick of BTW, that is the OTHER underlying cause of this. The third party crusade of outrage warriors that has seemingly replaced actually talking or writing about Games).
Customers of an industry see something a bit sordid a bit unseemly and that seems ethically not right. They ask a question "Is this normal" and immediately get branded as "Virtual Rapists". The Games Press demands that the gamers will not be spoken to, that they literally have no moral ground to question them until they quite frankly solve the entire problem of trolls on the internet all by themselves because it is all all of their faults. Oh and they are all "white male sexist misgynistic virtual rapist shitbags that need to die". (And yes these are all things that Gamers have been called by many of the leading lights of the gaming press over the past few weeks, typically in public, all why they point figures and shout how the gamers have harassed somebody with a nasty twitter tweet. Stay classy guys)
And the amazing thing is the ethics or rather what the ethics should be are pretty clear. See the wonderful Youtube Video of UGA Professor of Ethics in Journalism Greg Lisby talking about what the standards are. That's all the gamers are asking for. Disclosure. Recuse when applicable. Keep pants in upright position as relates to work. Treat actual consumers with respect, not as a punching bag for your personal crusade. Remove shitbag from your list of marketing terms.
And yet every rock we turn over seems to get worse. And it blows our mind how the gaming press just hand waves it away like "nothing to see here" no big deal. Money moving in strange circular paterns around Patreon between writers and developers, Writers and Editors operating personal PR and consulting firms offering services on how to game the review system (Hi Leigh!) A complete and utter disregard for even the most basic disclosure. A complete inability to keep a wall of seperation between Editorial, Opinion, Review and personal lives. They accuse the gamers of being the stereotypical teenage boy, failing to realize that most gamers are 30+ some are 50+ They have lives, carrers, long experience and they are familiar with real world business practices. They know, or enough of them most certainly know what is wrong with what we are seeing in the gaming press. How it fails virtually every test that could be run to determine integrity. Not that individual writers are corrupt, but there is no appropriate structure in place to prevent corruption.
Take the Patreon accounts. Yeah it may just be friends helping starving artists. But honestly the way those things loop and twirl and spin around each other, it looks a lot like something else. To a casual or outside observer there is no way to determine if this is just friendly support, or some sort of pay to play extortion scam. And honestly there have been hints and reports that it could go either way.
And lets look at that GamesJournoPros list. According to Orland it was modelled on and inspired by "Journolist". They fashioned it after the original that stands as one of the most taught "Do Not Ever Do This" object lessons in every School of Journalism in the world. And they don't see how or why it could be a problem? Nono its just a normal business list of colleagues discussiong businessy things. And not say a group of major editors from numerous competing businesses functioning as a defacto shadow editorial board for all without there owners knowledge or approval? And even is it started out as one thing, as you can see from the exchange between Ben Kuchera and Greg Tito that with a simple turn of an e-mail thread it becomes the other, whether intended or not. This is why jounalists are not supposed to do this sort of thing.
somebody never taught the Gaming Press that like all Journalism they are a trust industry. They have broad powers and protections, but that is backed up by the need for ethical standards. The appearence of conflict or corruption is just as bad as actual conflict or corruption. And everything revealed since that simple "nothing to see here" sex scandal has been nothing but the appearence of conflict, corruption, bad practices and collusion for personal profit or purpose.
But you all are right, it's just because some girl had sex... Appalling
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Andrew Eisen addressed a lot of your points, so I'll just cover a few he didn't touch on:
1) The reason there are a lot of generalizations about #GamerGate being misogynistic is because a whole shit-ton of people have been harassing Zoe Quinn under its banner. In fact, this seems to have been the primary reason it exploded (Yes, there's the possibility of a build-up, as was mentioned here, but the timing is still damn suspicious. Combine that with the fact that Zoe is the one being harassed here, and it looks pretty obvious that misogyny is playing at least some role here.).
So, certainly not all people engaged in this are the type who send rape threats to women over trivial matters. But a lot are. And you're all flying the same flag. Imagine you were using a swastika as a symbol. Would you be surprised if people assumed you were Nazis? Because that's what the swastika is most known for these days, and from the outside, #GamerGate is most known for the harassment targeted at Quinn. Want to avoid that? Fly another flag. Simple as that.
2) Yeah, some outlets are saying "Gamers" are dead. But they're also defining "Gamers" as specifically the worst of the bunch when they do so. This subtlety very easily gets lost on the internet, where people often don't read past the headlines.
3) On "censorship," I can't say for sure as the threads are gone now (unless you can provide an archive link to show otherwise), but I really doubt there was any censorship going on to prevent discussion of the "controversy" that Quinn and Kuchera had sex some time after he mentioned her. (If it were before, there'd be a slim argument, but not after. Cause-and-effect doesn't work that way. See AE's comment below.) What seems a lot more likely is that there was a ton of abuse going in Quinn's direction in those threads, the mods saw it as a cesspool of filth, and decided to kill it with fire due to the abuse alone, possibly getting some non-abusive discussion caught in the crossfire and mixing their metaphors to the moon.
Then, those who weren't hurling abuse at Quinn saw the whole thing deleted, and didn't connect the deletion to the abuse, but to their own writing, and they cried censorship. With no threads around to point to and demonstrate other reasons, no one could prove them wrong, and so the censorship cry spread.
4) On Patreon, Kickstarter, and other support: Yes, there's a potential for corruption there. There's also potential for corruption if a reporter eats at McDonald's and then later does a report on them. That type of thing doesn't merit a disclaimer in the traditional press though, and I don't see why it should be different if a game journalist who once bought a Capcom game publishes a review of the newest game by Capcom. Maybe there's a slight bias there, but the absence of an explicit disclaimer of all tenuous possible conflicts of interest doesn't add up to corruption.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Well written. What you've outlined is exactly why I got involved with #Gamergate.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
I disagree with a lot of your framing.
I haven't seen a coverup. I have seen people shutting down discussions of someone's private life when it was completely off-topic and pulling the plug on discussions that were predominantly nasty and abusive.
As far as the GameJournosPro list? I haven't seen anyone cover that up or silence discussion about it. Have you? If so, where?
"Yet why is asking to take a critical look at the practices of the games journalists so abhorrent?"
It's not, in and of itself. And in and of itself, I haven't seen any major sites try and dodge specific and genuine questions along those lines.
"The sex scandal was we literally caught the games journalist in bed with an indy developer that he provided coverage on."
See, here's the problem. That didn't happen. The journalist in question did not review or preview the game of the dev in question. He did mention it in passing a couple times but each instance was before he was alleged to have begun a relationship with the dev in question.
So, all the hullabaloo revolving around that (and that specifically) is unmitigated nonsense and that's why it often gets deleted.
"...a conversation is warranted [regarding the GameJournosPro list]. Instead we got "Gamers are Dead" and "Gamers Don't Need to Be Your Audience"."
Not that it matters, just a point of order but that very small spat of articles came out weeks before GameJournosPro became a point of discussion.
"While Gamers get screamed at and accused of being Misogynistic Privileged White Male Trolls from every angle."
By who? Who is saying that? I've asked others and no one's provided a single example.
I've seen a few opine that the majority of the people being nasty, abusive little snots are gamers and predominantly white but I've yet to see anyone blanket attack their readership.
"They ask a question [about ethics] "Is this normal" and immediately get branded as "Virtual Rapists"."
By who?
"Oh and [gamers] are all "white male sexist misgynistic virtual rapist shitbags that need to die"."
Seriously, who said that?
"They accuse the gamers of being the stereotypical teenage boy, failing to realize that most gamers are 30+ some are 50+"
What? Who in the game industry (the game industry that frequently and enthusiastically touts that the average gamer is 30 or so) is perpetuating that silly stereotype?
"[GameJournosPro] is just a normal business list of colleagues discussiong businessy things. And not say a group of major editors from numerous competing businesses functioning as a defacto shadow editorial board for all without there owners knowledge or approval?"
Just commenting on that last part but most of the owners (I assume you mean site EICs and such) are members of the group.
Andrew Eisen
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
"The only reason I can think of for that to be a problem is if the vast majority of the people harassing game devs weren't gamers."
"it is perfectly appropriate for "these articles [to] routinely link the behavior to gaming and gamers." You agree that nearly all of the meanie-heads are gamers so I don't understand why it's so offensive for game news outlets to say so."
"they are gamers so what's the problem with saying so?"
It's a problem because the fact that they're gamers is not pertinent, it's incidental. It's not mostly gamers harassing game devs/journalists because gamers are more misogynist than other people, it's mostly gamers harassing game devs /journalists because who else would be interacting with game devs/journalists? The implication is that there is a link between that behavior and being a gamer, but the reality is, the sample is completely skewed by restricting it to people who interact with game devs/journalists.
"You act like only a small portion of them are gamers, which is again why I asked if you thought it was a low percentage."
No, you are the one who started talking about a small portion of them being gamers. I never said a thing about how many of the trolls were or were not gamers until you brought it up, and even then, all I said was that while I'm sure at this point a lot of non-gamers have been attracted to the fray, even if 100% of them were gamers, it wouldn't mean anything, because the circumstances dictate that pretty much everybody involved will be a gamer. To return to the school shooter analogy, if (or sadly, when) the news constantly harps on if the shooter played games, refers to them as a gamer whenever they are mentioned, etc, that's bullshit, right? While it may technically be true, just as it's true that a lot of the gamergate trolls are gamers, it's not really meaningful to why they did what they did. It's incidental to them being a human being in that age range, but by constantly mentioning the gaming angle, they are creating the implication that being a gamer is somehow responsible for them shooting up a school. Same thing here. I'm not saying that it's false to refer to the gamergate trolls as gamers, I'm saying that it is irrelevant and serves only to create the implication that being a gamer is a factor in why they are such scumbags.
"no one is saying that."
Leigh Alexander is saying that. Dan Golding is saying that. Devin Wilson is saying that.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
"It's a problem because the fact that they're gamers is not pertinent, it's incidental."
Ah, okay. I don't at all agree, but I do finally see where you're problem is stemming from. Cool beans.
"No, you are the one who started talking about a small portion of them being gamers."
What I was saying is that your comments were, to me, coming across as though you thought that enough of the people doing the harassing weren't gamers to make addressing them as such inaccurate and/or unfair. That's why I asked. No accusations. No disingenuous mangling of statistics or any of that rubbish. Just seeking clarification which you provided.
"Leigh Alexander is saying that. Dan Golding is saying that. Devin Wilson is saying that."
Devin Wilson, so far as I can tell, is just some guy, not a journalist so whatever he has to say (and there are a few things in his list of 18 that I don't totally agree with) has no bearing on the broader narrative of the game press. That said, I've been linked to these three articles before but I read them again just in case and not one of them says all gamers are misogynists, all misogynists are gamers, or that the rotten behavior we've seen stems from being a gamer.
Andrew Eisen
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
"‘Games culture’ is a petri dish of people who know so little about how human social interaction and professional life works that they can concoct online ‘wars’ about social justice or ‘game journalism ethics,’ straight-faced, and cause genuine human consequences. Because of video games."
This is what all of gaming culture is like, and it is like that because of video games.
"When you decline to create or to curate a culture in your spaces, you’re responsible for what spawns in the vacuum."
Gamers are responsible for what the trolls do.
"Suddenly a generation of lonely basement kids had marketers whispering in their ears that they were the most important commercial demographic of all time. Suddenly they started wearing shiny blouses and pinning bikini babes onto everything they made, started making games that sold the promise of high-octane masculinity to kids just like them.
By the turn of the millennium those were games’ only main cultural signposts: Have money. Have women. Get a gun and then a bigger gun. Be an outcast. Celebrate that. Defeat anyone who threatens you. You don’t need cultural references. You don’t need anything but gaming. Public conversation was led by a games press whose role was primarily to tell people what to buy, to score products competitively against one another, to gleefully fuel the “team sports” atmosphere around creators and companies."
Gaming led to these people having these attitudes.
"“Gamer” isn’t just a dated demographic label that most people increasingly prefer not to use. Gamers are over. That’s why they’re so mad.
These obtuse shitslingers, these wailing hyper-consumers, these childish internet-arguers -- they are not my audience. They don’t have to be yours."
Gamers are obtuse shitslingers, wailing hyper-consumers, childish internet-arguers.
Now, Leigh's article is the low hanging fruit, I'll grant you, but the others make similar points, just not so egregiously. Blaming it on gaming culture, saying that gamers at large are responsible for preventing or allowing the trolls from being trolls, etc.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
"This is what all of gaming culture is like, and it is like that because of video games."
She's clearly talking about a specific breed of gamer but yeah, I don't like or agree with how she's defining gaming culture either. Certainly it encapsulates those aspects but I (and most others) would argue that gaming culture extends far beyond that limited and stereotypical definition.
That said, I'm personally not bothered by it as much as this passage is more used to set up the discussion of a particular group of gamers.
"Gamers are responsible for what the trolls do."
No, not gamers. Here, she's talking about the gaming press and moderating the comments sections and forums on their websites.
"Gaming led to these people having these attitudes."
Marketing actually, not gaming. What she's saying is that this aspect of gaming culture (and yeah, the way she writes, it does rather come across as this is gaming culture in its entirety) helped shape said attitudes.
"Gamers are obtuse shitslingers, wailing hyper-consumers, childish internet-arguers."
No, she's referring to a specific group of gamers, not all of them.
I get why you don't like Alexander's writings. I don't regularly read her myself as I don't often care for her tone. At worst, she's got a very narrow definition of gaming culture. I don't see what that has to do with the rest of the games press if this is the most egregious example of the stuff that rubs you the wrong way.
Andrew Eisen
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
She chose those words specifically knowing how people would interpret it. She's a writer, she knows the words she chose, this isn't an issue of semantics.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
There's no one thing I can point to to prove my case, no smoking gun. It's more a matter of being fed up with what feels like a pattern of abuse from all angles, not only the games press. All the finger-wagging, haranguing, blaming, shaming, has worn my patience a bit thin. I don't have a catalog of quotes for you, it's not like I keep an annotated list of everything anyone ever said that bothered me. It's an impression that has been building in my mind for years now, and while it feels real to me, I don't have ironclad evidence to show you.
Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?
Funny thing is, SJWs (I wear the badge proudly) have a good word for this kind of thing: "microaggression." A common example is addressing a mixed-gender group as "guys" (which implicitly erases women in the group, and positions them as not being the default human). Any given instance of it is negligible, and one can argue against any ill intent. Hell, I found myself doing it earlier today. It's just the word I've been trained to say in that situation, and I certainly didn't intend anything by it.
But that type of thing adds up. As do cases of people making sloppy statements like "Gamers really need to lighten up on Anita Sarkeesian" which group in those who aren't participating in the abuse of her with those who are. So, just because you don't have any obvious smoking guns doesn't mean there isn't a problem here. The little things matter too, and they add up.
So, even if you don't have a smoking gun for Andrew and others who ask, listing out all the little microaggressions you feel and explaining them can still be useful. It can give receptive people a guide to how to avoid piling on.
(Just, please, don't do this under the #GamerGate flag. That's been poisoned far too badly in many circles, and anything done under it is going to be interpreted in a negative, suspicious light because of this. I really recommend switching to a different hashtag for serious discussion of ethics in game journalism.)