Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

September 23, 2014 - Andrew Eisen

#GamerGate.

It's a hashtag you may have seen on Twitter or discussed in countless news and opinion pieces at various websites, both enthusiast and mainstream.  It's a movement, a collection of like-minded and passionate people banding together in order to achieve an end.

What end is that, you ask?

You tell us!  Vote in this week's poll and tell us what #GamerGate is all about.  If the true meaning is not among the response options, let us know your thoughts in the comments below.

EZK and I will discuss this topic and reveal the poll results on this weekend's episode of Super Podcast Action Committee.  We'll be streaming live here on GamePolitics at 6p PST Saturday night.  We hope to see you there!

"vote label" © Tribalium / Shutterstock. All rights reserved, used with permission.

-Reporting from San Diego, GamePolitics Contributing Editor Andrew Eisen


Comments

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

To use that tag, I would have to join Twitter, something that I will never do.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

On your "Guys" example you provided. I personally think the word is an acceptable gender neutral term to use for a group of people. "Guy" still refers to a male, but "Guys" refer to a group of people. Yes, it has a masculine origin, but so has the word "Man" which has now is used for more than a male. Examples of such are, "Man, that was tough" and the use of "Man" as a short for "Human"

Plenty of people, though it seems to be primarily men, are unsure what to call a group of people when it's just women or mix gender. A guy probably doesn't want to go up to a group of women and call them "girls" or "gals", as some women take offense to that. And a mixed group, while "Guys and Gals" and "Gals and Guys" are acceptable in most cases, what if there one one of one gender in the group? It gets awkward to go "Hey Guys and Gal" or "Hey Guy and Gals", as it points out to the group of the odd one out.

Basically, just saying, it's better to just accept "Guys" as an acceptable neutral gender term in referring to a group of people.

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If you don't like something I said in a post, don't just hit the dislike, let me know your thoughts! I'm interested in knowing everyone's opinions, even when they don't mesh with my own.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it's a microaggression. A very subtle way sexism seeps into everyday language. And the use of "man" as short for "human" is another example of this. Let me ask you this: Why is it that the male always seems to be the default? The examples don't end here - look at the terms "gay" and "lesbian," or look at other languages and see how often it is that the male term is also used a default, genderless term compared to the female term.

In this case, if you want an alternative for referring to a group, go with "you all" or "y'all." It works in Texas.

But really, this is off-topic here. Here's a good link on how letting male be the default can be harmful: http://shweta-narayan.livejournal.com/204154.html

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

There are plenty of examples of the opposite actually. A lot of objects are referred with feminine pronouns and names. Ships, Cars, Planes, Houses, Stars, Planets, Weather, the list goes on. Heck, even computer rigs getting feminine names or being referred as "she" are getting more common.

While this plays more into anthropomorphizing, it does show a example of feminine default preferences.

As for this being off topic, it's not too badly off topic, no more than checking a wikipedia article, and checking out a related one, and another that is related to that second one, and so forth. And while it has strayed a bit from the original topic, it's not harmful to the discussion, and we're being civilized.

 

╔╦═╣Signature Statement╠═╦╗

If you don't like something I said in a post, don't just hit the dislike, let me know your thoughts! I'm interested in knowing everyone's opinions, even when they don't mesh with my own.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

oh and to answer your questions regarding "who said that"?

There is a bit of an amalgamation there. But pretty much all of it can be found spread across a variety of Leigh Alexander works, Patricia Hernandez works, among others, except for "shitbags" I'm pretty sure that was a direct quote from Ben Kuchera. 

Go back and read some of the articles these people have been writing. Not just in the past 6 weeks, but rather nauseatingly frequently for the past 5 years or so. Kotaku is particularly toxic for much of this. What do you think your customers don't actually read what is written? The "Gamers are Dead" assault was at least to the gamers, the climax and breaking point for a years long stream of toxicity that the customer base had been increasingly being subjected to. 

You guys are so fixated on the harassment you or people you know have been receiving online that you have not gone back and actually looked at why they are so angry. here's a hint that type of anger does not come from being Misogynists. It comes from being called Misogynists, Sexist, horrible horrible people for liking your hobby or playing a game that may have too much boob physics for some. For wanting to ask questions in the discussion about sexism in gaming rather than simply being lectured to, and being slapped down and treated like children at every turn. 

and here's one more thing that seems to be completely lost or misrepresented in all of this. The gamers, the #Gamergate types. They really aren't mad at the Game Dev's (baring a select few individuals that have been a little too loose on Twitter.) The Game Dev's are not even in this equation for them. It is the middle men between the gamers and the devs, the journalists that are drawing all the ire. The devs are sadly getting dragged into it by both sides.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

"[The anger] comes from being called Misogynists, Sexist, horrible horrible people for liking your hobby or playing a game that may have too much boob physics for some."

I imagine it would.  Problem is, I have seen no one actually say that.  I've been linked to well over a dozen articles now and not a single one of them has actually said that.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

Jezebel : "why are so many video gamers complete fucking misogynistic pieces of septic scunge?"

Autostraddle : "Men seem to think that the gaming world belongs only to them.", "Gamers repeatedly called her misogynistic slurs" (no qualifiers on that group, just "gamers").

Evilasahobby : "the No Girls Allowed Club was still alive and kicking in video games."

Venturebeat : Pretty much the whole thing

I filtered out gamergate results, so these date back a ways, but I didn't have to search too hard to find them.  None of them are the explicit "If you like video games then you are a mysogynist piece of shit" statement that you seem to be asking for, but even with the milder tone of most of these (excep Jezebel, but...  it's Jezebel), the implication that this kind of misogynistic behavior is inherent to gaming and gamers, just builds and builds.  Add to that the current shitstorm, with all the articles about how "gamers are over", "gamer is dead", and so forth.  It all feeds into the perception that we are all being blamed for, and placed on the same level as, the bottom-feeders who are out there making rape threats and shit.  Most people find that behavior abhorrent, and having so many people lay that at your feet, as a gamer, is offensive.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

Jezebel

Very clearly speaking to (and mocking) "anyone who has ever made one of these [misogynist] arguments."

Autostraddle

Not a gaming site.  That said, clearly speaking about a troublesome portion of the gaming community as evidenced by everything from the repeated use of qualifiers such as "often" or "seems like" to explicitly saying so: "Not everything segment of the gaming community is full of misogyny and queer hate, though" and "while the stereotypical gamer may behave the reputation of a misogynistic anti-queer manchild, the majority of people who play video games don’t really fit that description."

Evilisahobby

Far as I can tell, this is just some gamer's blog.  Doesn't appear to be a very widely-read one either, only 71 Twitter followers.  That said, I certainly don't see how compiling and condemning a laundry list of sexist behavior from a given year is an attack on all all gamers.

VentureBeat

It's a brief examination of "the misogynistic aspect of video game culture" (emphasis mine), not an attack on gaming and gamers as a whole.

"It all feeds into the perception that we are all being blamed for, and placed on the same level as, the bottom-feeders who are out there making rape threats and shit.

Well, you're not.  I have read every article I've been linked to and the blame is clearly being placed squarely on "the bottom-feeders who are out there making rape threats and shit."

"Most people find that behavior abhorrent, and having so many people lay that at your feet, as a gamer, is offensive."

I'm sure it would be.  But so far, I've seen no one actually do that, let alone an industry-wide narrative that all gamers have behavior and attitude issues.

But, I guess none of that matters if so many people are coming away with that perception.

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

People come away with that perception because these articles routinely link the behavior to gaming and gamers.  Qualifying it by calling it "an aspect of" gaming culture, or specifying "misogynist gamers", starts to ring a bit hollow when you are constantly pushing the notion that it is linked to gamers, and that gamers are collectively responsible for what these asshats are saying and doing (see my conversations with Craig R. here and in the SIEGE 2014 article for an example of that nonsense).

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

"People come away with that perception because these articles routinely link the behavior to gaming and gamers."

Are you suggesting that gamers make up only a small percentage of the people exhibiting the awful behavior these articles are talking about?

"...and that gamers are collectively responsible for what these asshats are saying and doing."

I have seen a very small number of individuals (actually, only one that I can think of) in comments sections say that but that certainly doesn't seem to be a general narrative of the gaming press.  So again, I have no idea why anyone is upset at the gaming press for touting a line that it doesn't appear to be touting. 

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

"Are you suggesting that gamers make up only a small percentage of the people exhibiting the awful behavior these articles are talking about?"

No, and frankly I'm surprised you even tried to pull that disingenuous statistical trick.  It's the same one that the wider media uses to try to link violence to gaming, so I know you know it for the bullshit that it is.  Say 90% of the shooters are gamers.  That doesn't mean much, since probably 90% of everybody that age is a gamer.  Now, gamers could make up 100% of the people exhibiting the behavior these articles are talking about (in reality, I'm sure once the controversy got going, it attracted trolls from outside, but that doesn't really change my point).  It doesn't mean 100% of gamers are mysogynists, or 100% of misogynists are gamers.  It's means this thing flared up among the gaming community and the gaming press, involving a game developer, game journalists, game critics, etc.  A large percentage of *everybody* in this controversy is going to be a gamer, because that's where it started.  That doesn't mean that they think the things they think, say the things they say, or do the things they do, *because* of being a gamer.  At most, being a gamer is responsible for their exposure to the controversy.

"I have seen a very small number of individuals (actually, only one that I can think of) in comments sections say that but that certainly doesn't seem to be a general narrative of the gaming press.  So again, I have no idea why anyone is upset at the gaming press for touting a line that it doesn't appear to be touting."

I think you are being overly literal.  Most of the time, it's not as blatant as actually saying all gamers need to take responsibility for the trolls. But subtler things, like saying "misogynist gamers" instead of "misogynists", or laying it on "gaming culture" or "some gamers", add up in people's minds, and seem to be leading to the same conclusion: that the behavior is linked to gaming and gamers, and that gamers need to do something about it.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

"No, and frankly I'm surprised you even tried to pull that disingenuous statistical trick."

Oh come now, that's not what I meant at all.  You take issue with "articles [that] routinely link the behavior to gaming and gamers."  The only reason I can think of for that to be a problem is if the vast majority of the people harassing game devs weren't gamers.  That's why I asked what I did.

"It doesn't mean 100% of gamers are mysogynists, or 100% of misogynists are gamers."

Of course it doesn't.  No one is saying that.

"A large percentage of *everybody* in this controversy is going to be a gamer..."

Yes, which is why it is perfectly appropriate for "these articles [to] routinely link the behavior to gaming and gamers."  You agree that nearly all of the meanie-heads are gamers so I don't understand why it's so offensive for game news outlets to say so.

"That doesn't mean that they think the things they think, say the things they say, or do the things they do, *because* of being a gamer."

Of course it doesn't.  But again, no one is saying that.

"I think you are being overly literal."

How else am I supposed to take it when direct quotes are used?

"But subtler things, like saying "misogynist gamers" instead of "misogynists"..."

But they are gamers so what's the problem with saying so?  You act like only a small portion of them are gamers, which is again why I asked if you thought it was a low percentage.

 

Andrew Eisen

P.S. - Getting a bit thin.  Might want to start a new thread.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

Yeah, I'll put my reply on your first comment in this thread.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

Yeah all one has to do is read how Leigh Alexander feels about "nerds": http://leighalexander.net/faq/

Or her rant on the gamers are dead: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php

The terms and phrases she uses to describe gamers and nerds is rather atrocious.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

Lets look at one of the major points of conflict between the gaming press and industry and the gamers currently.

"See, here's the problem.  That didn't happen.  The journalist in question did not review or preview the game of the dev in question.  He did mention it in passing a couple times but each instance was before he was alleged to have begun a relationship with the dev in question."

See that line? That is an ethical problem. He might not have had a clear Quid Pro Quo, but there is an intimate personal relationship in fairly immediate proximity to those article mentions. Is there a clear sign of corruption? That he is extorting sex for coverage? No. Probably not. He's young and stupid so I'll give him the benefit of thinking like a 20 something male. But it is still horribly horribly unethical for a journalist. The way I was always taught in interpreting maters of conflict where there was the possibility of some direct conflict or exchange of services in a personal relationship was the old school "year and a day rule". If he had not written of her in a year he would be ok ethically. But 48 hours? 2 days? Really?The intimacy may have occurred after the articles but the close undisclosed personal relationship clearly did not. And that is the problem. 

And please note this is the only element of anyone sex life that is a matter of discussion or public interest for anybody. The timing and nature of relations regarding the reporter. His partner in this endeavor is unimportant beyond the basic fact that she is someone he had reported on. It does not matter if it was a review, a story a simple mention. It was positive coverage. It was effectively marketing. and the ethical obligation is his. He was supposed to not get involved. (and honestly names were not needed for this story folks.) And see that paragraph up there. The one above this. That is the conversation that the gamers wished to have. Allowing them to have it would have taken less than a day and then it would have faded. We were all young and stupid. But by seeking to prevent the conversation of applicable public or consumer interest it ended up generating anger in the readership. And that brought us to #Gamergate.

I personally cannot escape the impression that Totilo's hand waving away of conflict is horrible. He essentially said it is ok for his reporters to sleep with indy devs so long as you write the story today and wait until midnight to hit the sheets. If you were a female indy dev what would you be thinking about what it takes to get your game mentioned in Kotaku now? How do you think female employees at Kotaku view this? What kind of work environment does that create for them? This isn't something special because it is the Games Industry. This is bad business practice. In this modern age it is incredibly bad business practice. And it is clear that some realize this. Note Andy Eddy's postings on that mailing list. (some of the best advice on there.) 

"I was told somewhat as much when I started my first job…don’t embarrass the magazine/company by getting drunk at an event or sleeping with someone you met at an event. And “don’t dip your pen in company ink…”

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

He did mention it in passing a couple times but each instance was before he was alleged to have begun a relationship with the dev in question.

"See that line? That is an ethical problem."

What?  How?  The article in question was a recap of GAME_JAM.  He mentions Depression Quest a grand total of twice and only in the context of explaining who Quinn is.  In fact, here is everything he wrote about Depression Quest:

"According to a report on Indie Statik (and corroborating testimonials from Depression Quest creator Zoe Quinn, SoundSelf maestro Robin Arnott, and traveling indie of all the hats Adriel Wallick), GAME_JAM was originally conceived as an attempt to give wider audiences an inside look at what a game jam - that is, a rapid-fire game creation process, usually done over the course of a few days as a creative exercise - is actually like."

"YouTube personality JonTron and Depression Quest creator Zoe Quinn butted heads during the Let's Play challenge, and they decided to resolve their differences with a discussion off-set."

How the hell is it "horribly horribly unethical for a journalist" to mention the name and work of one of the subjects of a nearly 2000 word article who he wasn't romantically involved with at that time or any time previously?  What are you expecting?  Something like:

[Full Disclosure: It's within the realm of possibility that I may one day date one or more of the subjects of this article, whose work I have not described or expressed an opinion on.]

"If you were a female indy dev what would you be thinking about what it takes to get your game mentioned in Kotaku now?"

Considering Depression Quest was written about and actually described/opined on four times by three different writers well before any of this happened, probably "make an interesting game."

 

Andrew Eisen

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

Attacking the consumers confused me to no end. I am a 30 year old guy with a life and family and gaming has been one of my major hobbies for most of that 30 years, being told that self identified gaming culture was dead because we were all awful people was so needlessly confrontational and out of the blue. It is hard to take gaming journalists seriously right now which is a shame because the game industry is so large and varied today that we need game journalists. 

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

  Brilliant.  I was floored when I saw the articles attacking their own readers.  And while I'm sticking around to see how this shakes out.  I will be looking for new venues for my news if things don't change. But I will do it after informing advertisers to these sites, and the magazine subscriptions I have, that I will not follow those publications any longer.

  I'm 38 and have been gaming since the old Atari 2600 days and I have never seen the gaming press so viciously attack the hand that feeds it.  During those years accusations over corruption in game journalism were brought up time and again, and the games media always calmly and respectfully responded and explained themselves.  That's why, when this giant reaction happened, it made me take notice. I had to wonder if this time there is fire behind the smoke.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

You could, however, see it as an accumulation process rather than isolated events. The Gatorade debacle has, for example, been brought up quite a lot in the current discussion (screaming?).

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

Thing is, accumulation swings both ways.  There is probably a mix of pent up anti-corruption feelings and pent up misogyny involved.  Given how much gender stuff has been flaring up over the last few months though I think the weight is more on that element then the usual corruption gamers ignore.

The mob did not seem to care about ethics in journalism till it was linked to the narrative of women trading sex for resources compounded by the 'fake nerd girl' meme.  So it fits in with that existing problem a lot better then the journalism issue.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

What about the fact that sometime in the last few months, not sure exactly when, youtubers that reviewed games were found to be getting paid by some of the same companies that made the games they reviewed? I believe that was at the forefront of gaming news for a bit and they were getting flack for that too.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

But, see, I don't care about that. I'm part of feminist groups, actively trying to correct issues with women in the industry. I have so many indie devs friends that were outspoken on this event. And I didn't take notice until the Streisand effect was at its peak and then I looked into it. I don't really care that much about what she did, as I'm not a huge fan of public court's opinion. But the gamers bashing, the thread deletion (some of which I saw, containing no information that broke any rules on the given site), the refusal to engage in dialog... That annoyed me. I love ethics just about as much as I love Science and this is wrong. I'm not refusing to call out the assholes who targeted her as wrong, heck, I do so on a regular basis. But this isn't an or scenario. There are multiple talking points here and, honestly, I saw a good few people I look up to or know personally act in completely inappropriate ways based solely on which group they felt they were in. And that sucks. Also, this is probably the most I've written on the subject and I doubt I'll touch it again. See how toxic it has become?

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

Gatorade debacle? That is the first I have heard of it. I am actually curious now.

I know of Gerstman-gate, Dorito-gate, and the incident with the televised game jam that forced the participants to drink nothing but Mountain Dew. 

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

Argh, this'll teach me to comment without fact-checking. I meant the mountain dew one. Sorry.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

As an extra bit of context on the Gerstmann thing: the game in question was Kane & Lynch, and Gamespot was covered in ads for it.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

Also I fail at typing.

Re: Poll: What Is #GamerGate About?

This, while there are legitimate concerns over journalism, it can be used for whatever one wants to use it for.

 
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