Game Consumer News

Best Buy Store Updates New 360s, For a Fee

October 22, 2009

A unnamed Best Buy store is taking the liberty of cracking open new Xbox 360s and updating them with the latest firmware. The only problem? They slap on an additional $29.99 charge for the service.

A reader of the Consumerist website snapped the pics to prove it. Updated consoles were resealed, given an “Inspected by Best Buy” sticker and adorned with magic marker indicating the date that the firmware update had been applied.

The story was originally posted on the Consumerist a few weeks ago, but we thought it was still worthwhile for those who hadn’t seen it. What do you think—a value-added service for those without Internet or consumer gouging?

Analyst: Digital Distribution Won’t Impact GameStop Until 2017

October 15, 2009

Broadpoint AmTech Analyst Ben Schachter doesn’t question the fact that digital distribution of games is increasing, but he doesn’t see it having an effect on GameStop’s business until 2017.

Limited hard drive space (he estimates 70% of current-gen consoles have no hard drives), bandwidth limitations and an extended console cycle (which Schachter sees continuing through 2014) are among the factors that will allow brick and mortar retailers to fend off their digital counterparts reports IndustryGamers.

Physical media still holds sway over gamers as well, notes Schachter:

…consumers attribute a value to having a hard/physical product that can be sold, traded, and is portable. GME's own study put the residual value of physical game disc at approximately $10-20 dollars vs. a download-only version of a game.

He also points to the “relative failure” of downloadable content for Grand Theft Auto IV:

The Grand Theft Auto (GTA) franchise is among the most well-known and successful brands ever created in the video game industry, yet having digital-only distribution of a product tied to GTA's most recent console title led to very disappointing sales. The bottom line is that retail still matters.

In these trying economic times, as our sister-site GameCulture reports, more and more gamers are resorting to digital downloads for mobile devices because of the attractive price points.

Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Group to Disband

October 14, 2009

A group of gamers angry at Valve Software over the development of Left 4 Dead 2 are poised to disband their boycott group.

The Steam Group L4D2 Boycott, comprised of over 41,000 members will close on October 21, 2009 reports VoodooExtreme. The group was angered over what they termed Valve’s abandonment of the original Left 4 Dead game, which they expected more updates and content for, versus Valve’s decision to launch a new version of the game.

Steam user Agent of Chaos said the group had “accomplished everything we can” and added that “Our goal wasn’t to steer people away from L4D2, it was to get Valve’s attention and have them support original L4D. We succeeded and that’s where our mission ends; nothing more or less.”

Another group admin, Steam user Walking_Target stated that “people are unwilling or unable to wait for Valve to follow through in any cohesive way. Valve is at least trying to make things right, there will be speed bumps on the way, however we will get there.”

Labeling the boycott group a success, Walking_Target continued:

As a collective we have done more than achieve a few goals, we have paved the way for Developer-Community relations in the future. No matter what the press or other gamers say, we have made an indelible mark upon the future of this industry. You should all be proud, we certainly are.

Valve flew the leaders of the boycott group out to their offices in September in a bid to make peace.

Delaware Pols in ESRB PSA Campaign

October 1, 2009

The Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) has drafted a pair of Delaware politicians for use in its holiday PSA drive.

State Representative Helene Keeley (D) and State Senator Bethany Hall-Long (D) appear in print, radio and retail ads designed to urge parents to check ESRB ratings when purchasing or renting a videogame.

Representative Keeley, (whose ad is pictured left) said:

Virtually all video game retailers have voluntary store policies restricting the sale of Mature-rated games to anyone under the age of seventeen. Parents can show their support for companies that have and enforce these policies by shopping for games at those stores.

Ads will run in Delaware shopping malls and radio stations beginning this month and running through December. The ESRB will also distribute a ratings education brochure to participating retailers for additional consumer education.

The Games of Liability and Warranty

September 30, 2009

In light of the recent blight of console failures and the cost of software, gamers should probably know the difference between product liability and warranty, even though the legalities of either are not always black and white.

The latest Law of the Game column on Joystiq delves into just this subject matter, including assessing the job developers and publishers have done so far in addressing games released with problems:

For now, however, it seems that the rare occasions where disks are actually faulty have been, by and large, addressed by the manufacturers without intervention by the courts or the government, which does put the game industry in a pretty good light when it comes to not overburdening the consumer with the resolution of an error.

If, per chance, a faulty disc shattered inside a console, rendering the machine useless, the author (a lawyer) believes that, “the manufacturer would almost certainly be held liable, even with a liability disclaimer.”

Intel Invests in On-Demand Gaming Firm

September 25, 2009

A set-top box-based home videogame system in the works from TransGaming, has landed seed money from Intel Capital, the investment arm of the chip manufacturer.

GameTree.tv is expected to launch in the second quarter of 2010. Units are powered by Intel’s new Atom CE4100 processors (codenamed Sodaville), which promise to run “rich media applications such as 3-D graphics.”

One definite plus for the system is the ability to run Flash-based games. The developer also notes that users don’t always want or need a keyboard and mouse in the living room, so part of what they are building includes the integration of gaming controllers.

PCMag recently had some hands on time with the device, trying out Peggle and World of Goo.

Certainly this service/device is aimed mostly at casual gamers. Hardcore types out there, is this something you would consider checking out?

IGN Acquires WhatTheyPlay

September 23, 2009

IGN Entertainment has acquired WhatTheyPlay, a website aimed at providing parents with information and resources about today’s videogames.

Launched in 2007 by videogame industry veterans John Davison and Ira Becker, WhatTheyPlay was a property of What They Like, Inc. No word was offered on the whether or not the founders or other staff would remain with the site as it moves under IGN's umbrella.

Davison, formerly President of the company, announced the acquisition in his blog. He added:

This project has been a labor of love for us, and we are immensely proud to see the brand we created together two years ago become part of the IGN Entertainment network.”


Calls for comment were not returned as of the time of this posting.

Despite Publishers' Complaints, They Benefit from Used Game Sales

September 11, 2009

We often hear publishers bemoan the fact that they don’t see any revenue from used game sales. But is that really true?

In a recent interview with IGN, Game Crazy’s Director of Used Games Marc Mondhaschen says that publishers are reaping benefits from game trade-ins, albeit indirectly:

We did a study not too long ago for a very large vendor who we managed to figure out for them 20 percent of their sales inside the first 28 days were paid for with trade dollars. So you got 20 points of their sales that wouldn't happen unless we had a trade business going. And that's specialty retail. Game specialty retail is maybe a third of the channel, 35 percent of the channel. So you got 10 percent of your sales that wouldn't happen unless somebody was out there trading games with your customers.

And if you didn't have specialty retail it would be pretty hard to sell innovation into the channel at all. I mean, Wal-Mart doesn't really buy Katamari Damacy. So, in order to innovate, in order to grow innovation in the business you need a specialty games retailer that actually knows something about videogames. And in order to have them, they need the margins through used games...

Mondhaschen explains that while publishers don’t typically see any money from used game sales, they do benefit in other ways:

When The Lost and Damned came out we started selling a whole lot more Grand Theft Auto 4, both on the new side and on the used side. Which, then, sort of funds people's ability to go play L&D again...

-Reporting from San Diego, GamePolitics Senior Correspondent Andrew Eisen...

Xbox 360 Owners to Pay $7 for L4D DLC that PC Gamers Get For Free

September 9, 2009

Usually, it's the PC crowd that gets dissed by game publishers. But in the case at hand Valve is doing right by computer gamers while Microsoft seems intent upon squeezing the last nickel out of Xbox 360 owners.

At issue is Crash Course,  a bit of DLC for the popular zombie shooter Left 4 Dead. Valve, which doesn't charge for DLC, plans to give Crash Course away to PC players. Meanwhile MS will be nicking 360 gamers $7 for the download.

Not that he has any explaining to do (although MS does), but Valve's Chet Faliszek told Eurogamer why it's happening this way:

We own our platform, Steam. Microsoft owns their platform. They wanted to make sure there's an economy of value there...

Via: The Consumerist

Chinese Gamers Stage Virtual Blockade in Protest of Crappy Remake

September 7, 2009

Everyone complains about lousy remakes of favorite games, but activist Chinese gamers did something about it - at least for a little while.

zonaeuropa reports that the online relaunch of Hot Blooded Legend was stopped cold by a mob of avatars that blocked new players from passing through the gates of the game's virtual city. The avatars were controlled by Chinese gamers who were upset that the new game didn't do justice to their beloved original:

Several days ago, Shanda published some screen captures which the players sadly found to include class restrictions and commercial stores... if a player has cash, he can purchase equipment to upgrade without having to go through the trouble to combat monsters ...

The players decided to call for a boycott...  At 2pm, the game opened as scheduled...  At one entrance, more than 40 characters stood still.  They wore cloth dresses and cloth shoes and stood shoulder to shoulder. Other players cannot enter... Meanwhile, several thousand people were blocking the gates of the various cities in the game.

The "counter-attack" [by game admins] came soon... Some players found their screen went black suddenly... Other players were transported by the system administrator far into the wilderness...

While the blockade eventually ran out of steam, the protesters made their point.

Via: boingboing

Gamer's Lawsuit Seeks $50K Over Xbox 360 Disc Scratching

September 4, 2009

Xbox 360 maker Microsoft is playing defense against a lawsuit filed in a Wisconsin court by a disgruntled gamer who claims that his console scratched game discs.

The Madison Record reports that plaintiff Jason Johnson's suit is proceeding after Madison County Circuit Judge Daniel Stack denied Microsoft's motion to dismiss the case. Although Judge Stack threw out two counts, he ruled that two others may proceed. Johnson is seeking $50,000 plus costs. From the newspaper:

Johnson is suing the company for alleged defects in its X-Box 360 video game console. Johnson alleges the company sold the product knowing it scratched video games and made them unplayable...

 

Johnson is seeking damages from the Washington-based company's alleged violation of the Illinois Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Business Practices Act, negligence, breach of implied warranty and strict product liability.

According to the newspaper account, Microsoft's attorney argued that the suit should be dismissed because Johnson didn't personally buy his 360; the system was a gift from his wife. That's a pretty silly argument and Judge Stack apparently thought so too.

GoW's Jaffe Rips Used Game Sales & Apparently Goes Offline

August 31, 2009

Outspoken God of War designer David Jaffe posted a video rant against used game sales on Saturday, but apparently removed it from YouTube the following day.

We caught up to Jaffe's video yesterday morning while scanning our daily RSS intake (left). By late afternoon when we checked back to gather some quotes for this article, it was gone. In its place was a YouTube message reading, "This video has been removed by the user."

A short time later, when we looked again, we couldn't even access his blog. A system message from Blogger read: "This blog is open to invited readers only."

It's unclear why Jaffe's video was taken offline or why he locked his blog. While Jaffe's video argument against used game sales was punctuated by occasional f-bombs, that's not unusual for his freewheeling commentaries. Prior to being locked, readers of Jaffe's blog were engaged in a lively response to his video, both pro and con.

The used game issue is a passionate one indeed, and Jaffe has addressed it previously on his blog. For his part, Jaffe takes the standard industry line that games are bad for developers and publishers. In the deleted video, he said (we're paraphrasing from memory here) that he didn't begrudge consumers the right to buy used games, but that game creators deserved a cut of used game sales. He said that some have defended used game sales by comparing buying a used game to buying a used car. However, Jaffe said that was a bad analogy because while playing a used game is the same experience as playing a new game, driving a used car is a different experience from driving a new one.

GP: Hmmm... We tried to reach Jaffe via Twitter to ask him about the missing video, but it appears that his Twitter account is no longer active. We hope that Jaffe has not decided to stop interacting with gamers. While we don't always agree with his rants, they are provocative and entertaining.

Gamers Propose Shadow Complex Boycott Over Orson Scott Card's Involvement

August 25, 2009

Shadow Complex, an adventure game in the vein of Castlevania or Super Metroid, became available for sale last week on Xbox Live Arcade. While the game has garnered impressive reviews, some are upset by the fact that its plot has been derived from the fiction of Orson Scott Card, a known campaigner against gay rights.  Gamers upset by this news are suggesting a boycott to ensure their dollars don’t end up funding Card's political agenda.

In an opinion piece for Gamasutra, Christian Nutt sees the idea of boycotting a game based on the political views of one of the creative influences as a sign that video games are growing up:

When Shadow Complex was announced, I personally was torn. I'd already long since made the conscious decision to not support Orson Scott Card directly with my money...

 

What bothers me is people who suggest that it's a non-issue because the topic of discussion is a game... "Remember back when we were kids and we just enjoyed games?" asks Wizman23.

Yes, I do. But we are not kids anymore... I was 32 on the day [Shadow Complex] became available for download on Xbox Live... I can't approach things the way I did as a child. That's not me being self-righteous; I mean that I literally cannot do this...

 

And that's why it's acceptable to talk about this... If we can have meaningful political discussion in other media, we can have it in games.

From all accounts, Shadow Complex looks like a very fun game.  For those who are put off by Card’s involvement, Nutt points to a suggestion offered up at GayGamer: buy the game and make a donation to a gay-positive charity to offset any profit Card may see from the sale.
 
-Reporting from San Diego, GamePolitics Senior Correspondent Andrew Eisen...

ESA Canada Head Argues for Stronger Copyright Laws... Canadian Readers Disagree

August 24, 2009

As the Canadian government undertakes a public consultation on copyright issues, the head of game publishers lobbying group ESA Canada has penned an op-ed on the issue for Straight.com.

Not surprisingly, Danielle Parr argues for technological protection measures (TPM) and against mod chips (which are not currently illegal in Canada). Parr writes:

For the video-game industry, TPMs are not only used to prevent piracy and cheating (e.g. “modding” game code to give an unfair advantage over other players); they also enable access to a greater range of features and options that would otherwise be unavailable. Things like parental controls... “trial” or “demo” versions of games, and new digital distribution platforms like Valve’s Steam, Xbox Live Arcade, or the PlayStation Network, all provide greater choice and access for consumers...

By ensuring that consumers have a variety of digital offerings to choose from, legal protection for TPMs allows market forces to protect consumer interests, so if a consumer does not like the conditions of sale or terms of service for one digital product or service, they can simply take their business elsewhere. Failing to protect TPMs under the law effectively means that the government is dictating the business model, which is bad news for business and for consumers.

Those commenting on the Straight.com piece, however, don't seem to be buying Ms. Parr's arguments. As I post this, there are 15 comments, all of which are critical of the ESA Canada boss's op-ed.

GFOX: Danielle Parr, and the [ESA Canada] are completely out of touch on this issue. By failing to bend to an American lobby group such as the ESA I hardly think that the government of Canada can be seen as "dictating" any particular business model... The ESA's [penchant] for freely spewing unsubstantiated and exaggerated statistical data with the sole intention of striking fear into the hearts and minds of lawmakers is appalling...

NerdOfAllTrades: I agree that measures should be taken to prevent piracy, but punishing your loyal customers with TPM, which will only mildly inconvenience real pirates for the few hours it takes them to remove it... will only make people want to buy fewer PC games.
 
Sébastien Duquette: DRM is a failure... I really don't like Parr's fear-mongering tone. The industry of video game is flourishing, without DRM inforcement

Will: The video game industry has claimed to be on the brink of collapse due to piracy since the 1980s, and yet it somehow continues to grow bigger and more profitable... There will always be free riders who don't pay for their copy, but that isn't relevant. It's how many games you sell, not how many you don't sell that matters... This control-freak mentality... serves only to create hostility between the industry the customers...

AWJ: once you throw in an anti-circumvention law like the American DMCA, your platform monopoly becomes a state-enforced monopoly... Danielle is even arguing is that if the government doesn't give Microsoft and Nintendo and Sony the state-enforced monopolies they want, then it's "dictating the business model". If nothing else, I admire her chutzpah...

WayneB: Let me get this straight - [DRM] is an advantage to the consumer? What a bald faced lie.

Idle: This is a disgusting show of contempt for canadians brought to you by the ESA "of Canada".

GP: In the photo at left, Parr is seen at ESA Canada's Ottawa Day 2009 lobbying event.

Another Used Game Whiner: Eidos Boss

August 20, 2009

Eidos president Ian Livingstone (left) is the latest game industry exec to complain about used game sales.

The BBC spoke to Livingstone about the issue. Here are the Eidos exec's comments:

The pre-owned market is a serious problem, because there is no benefit to developers or publishers...

A shop makes a bigger margin on a pre-owned title, and can sell them six or seven times, so there is no incentive for them to reorder and the content creator gets no slice of the action.

GP: "No slice of the action," of course, is the operative phrase in Livingstone's mini-rant.

Frankly, I have no sympathy for the industry's used game whiners and even less when I remember that digital distribution is inching ever closer. When that happens, the publishers will be in the driver's seat.

Enjoy your used game savings while you can.

Via: gi.biz

Lawyers in Class Action Suit Vs. EA are Seeking Madden Buyers to Join In

August 19, 2009

Gamers who purchased a copy of Madden from August, 2005 onward may be eligible to join a class action suit against publisher Electronic Arts.

Pecover vs. EA (all GP coverage here) is currently proceeding in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California. The suit alleges that EA's exclusive licensing deal with the NFL and NFL Players Association created a monopoly situation which EA exploited by substantially raising the retail price for a copy of Madden.

In a story broken recently by GamePolitics, an expert witness hired by the plaintiffs theorized that EA's exclusive NFL/NFLPA license may have cost consumers nearly a billion dollars. Lawyers for EA have disputed that claim in court documents.

In a press release issued on Friday, Hagens Berman Sobol Shapiro, the law firm representing consumers in the case, provides a link where Madden buyers can learn more about the suit and potentially join as additional plaintiffs.

Lead attorney Steve Berman, quoted in the press release, pulled no punches in his assessment of EA's position regarding Madden:

There is nothing wrong with good, strong competition in a free market, but we believe EA rigged the game to take advantage of consumers.

EA knows that the demand for these games is based on how realistically the players and teams are portrayed. When EA signed into exclusive agreements it knowingly killed the only competing game of comparable quality, [Take-Two's] NFL 2K5.

Video Games Are Dead, Part 2

August 18, 2009

Part 2 of Video Games are Dead, Scott Steinberg's short documentary look into the future of the game biz, has dropped.

While it's unclear why this needed to be a two-parter, there were a couple of good lines:

We have too many people who have a love of money in our industry. We need more people who have a love of art, who have a love for the act of creating games.  -Chris Taylor, Gas-Powered Games

 

Game publishers and the retailers, they should come to some kind of agreement about how to make [used game sales] happen so it doesn't really hurt the developers. But at the same time consumers have their own rights and to pull games out of the reach of many consumers is actually not a good idea. -Dean Takahashi, VentureBeat

Catch Part 1 here...

Report: Xbox 360 Failure Rate Pegged at 54%

August 17, 2009

When more than half of what you're manufacturing fails, that's not a good way to win friends and influence customers.

But that appears to be the case with Microsoft's Xbox 360. A survey of 5,000 Game Informer readers indicates that the Xbox 360 dies at a 54.2% rate, compared to 10.6% for the PlayStation 3 and 6.8% for the Wii.

Game Informer also rated MS poorly on customer service, with turnarounds on repairs taking several weeks longer than for Sony and Nintendo.

GP: While those numbers may seem shocking, I actually find them surprisingly low. I've had three Xbox 360s go on me; two were Red Rings failures and the third was the very common disc-read failure. So, my failure rate is... 100%.

Via: The Consumerist

Dress Your Xbox Live Avatar for the Recession & Get a Little Poorer in the Process

August 13, 2009

Times are tough, so why not blow your last few bucks on virtual threads for your Xbox Live avatar?

Designer Michael Connell spoke to Kotaku about his new line of fashion for XBL. While some of Connell's designs pay homage to the popular Steampunk style, he also gives a nod to the down economy with "Recessionista" clothing:

I was thinking about making a statement, if you will, that even though this time of global recession, everything isn't bad." Connell said. "And in the 30s, in a time that was really bad, much worse than it is today, it wasn't all bad. There was fashion that was quite interesting. And this fashion wasn't the couture that was happening at the time...

 

[I hope] to kind of show that there are good things and we've been there and we'll get out. Clearly these are subliminal messages, but this is what I was inspired by. If you design a collection I think the most important thing is there needs to be heart and soul and direction.

Misspelling Behind Ebay Removal of Sarah Palin Xbox 360?

August 13, 2009

Recently, GamePolitics reported on a million dollar Ebay listing for an Xbox 360 supposedly autographed by former Alasksa Governor Sarah Palin.

Canadian David Morrill told the Anchorage Daily News that he obtained the signature from Palin at a picnic event earlier in the summer. The auction was quickly removed by Ebay, however, with no explanation forthcoming.

Not long after, a second auction which advertised a "replica" of the original Palin 360 appeared. That listing, clearly a parody, also has been removed.

Now, David Sheets, who blogs about games for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, has a theory as to why the original listing was taken down. Sheets believes that Palin's first name is misspelled:

Game Guy thinks he knows why the bid was yanked. If you look closely at the signature, former Gov. Palin’s first name appears to lack the final “h.” Last he heard, she spelled her first name “Sarah,” not “Sara.” Even Alaska’s official website spells it with an “h.”

And hey, you can’t ask for a cool $1.1 million for a signed Xbox if the signee can’t spell her name correctly.

GP: I'm no handwriting expert, but I'm not so sure that I buy into Sheets's theory. For one thing, the ex-Guv's purported autograph tails off after the "r" in "Sarah," as if she (or whoever wrote it) was signing hastily. So the missing "h" is not all that farfetched. Beyond that, the authenticity of high-priced autographs is always an issue, which may have prompted the Ebay removal.

GamePolitics ShoutBox

Posted 11/07/09 at 07:07am
Austin_Lewis: That officer did a great service and shot him four times, even though she was shot herself.
Posted 11/07/09 at 07:05am
Austin_Lewis: JDKJ: It's true, AP ammo isn't available to those oustide LEO/Military fields. The round is smaller than most pistol rounds, but even a pistol round will pierce police soft body armor, especially at close range.
Posted 11/06/09 at 10:12pm
JDKJ: No. Reports from the gunshop are that he purchased the gun but did not purchase any ammunition for it. But I understand that AP ammunition in 5.7 X 28mm isn't readily available to those other than law enforcement and military.
Posted 11/06/09 at 10:08pm
chadachada321: For sure. I can't wait to go to the range again, I'm gonna pay to rent the .460 S&W. >:D do u kno if the shooter used AP round?
Posted 11/06/09 at 10:02pm
JDKJ: @chada: If you're asking me to spend $1000 on a handgun, it ought to be "awesome."
Posted 11/06/09 at 09:56pm
chadachada321: Shot 6-7-ish different types of ammo in 5-6 different guns, ranging from .22 to the freaking .44 Magnum.
Posted 11/06/09 at 09:55pm
chadachada321: Damn. That's an awesome gun. I actually went to a shooting range for the first real time yesterday. =D
Posted 11/06/09 at 09:13pm
JDKJ: No, it uses the very peculiar and expensive 5.7 x 28mm round. That's why it's call the "Five-Seven." It's smaller than a 9mm round, allowing the magazine to hold 20 rounds. And, in some variants, is armour piercing (hence sometimes called "Cop Killers").
Posted 11/06/09 at 08:50pm
magic_taco: Sheesh,Dont FN five-seven use .32acps?
Posted 11/06/09 at 08:20pm
JDKJ: BREAKING: Hasan reportedly armed with FN Five-Seven, legally purchased at Killeen, TX gunshop. For more insight on this weapon, once the subject of a failed federal ban attempt, we turn to GamePolitics' firearm expert Austin Lewis. Dr. Lewis?
Posted 11/06/09 at 06:34pm
magic_taco: Im better though he's going to make an excuse if news stations call him, or if he has CNN,FOX,NBC on his speed dial list.
Posted 11/06/09 at 05:43pm
PHX Corp: @M_T oh you mean Mr garbage man(really wanted to say that because he spews garbage out of his mouth on TV stations willing to get more money)
Posted 11/06/09 at 04:34pm
magic_taco: Im betting JT has his face glued to the TV right now.
Posted 11/06/09 at 04:20pm
ZippyDSMlee: what about casaul linkage between mass shooting and gun owners :Phip?
Posted 11/06/09 at 01:56pm
JDKJ: Sooner or later, the causal connection between every mass shooting and video games becomes clear.
Posted 11/06/09 at 01:54pm
DarkSaber: Well there you go, he wouldn't have been injured if not for vidja gayms
Posted 11/06/09 at 01:40pm
JDKJ: From an interview of a Ms. Johnson which just aired on HLN, it appears her son, Justin, who was injured but not critically so, was playing a video game in the Readiness Center when the shooting commenced.
Posted 11/06/09 at 01:38pm
wehrgeist: @A_L yeah.
Posted 11/06/09 at 01:34pm
Austin_Lewis: Does anyone else find the Orlando mayor's nickname an interesting reminder of Bud Dwyer?
Posted 11/06/09 at 01:10pm
ZippyDSMlee: no wonder hiipes love pot...tis the sandles man.... >< I need to start wearing better shoes ><
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