U.K.

Report: Sega Cooperating with BBFC to Avoid Manhunt 2-like Ban in U.K.

August 25, 2008

Given the pre-release backlash from media watchdogs over the level of violence depicted in Sega's upcoming Wii title Madworld, publisher Sega is said to be in touch with officials of the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) and Pan-European Gaming Information system (PEGI) in an effort to head off the type of outright ban imposed on Rockstar Games' controversial Manhunt 2 last year.

Nintendic reports on the dialogue between Sega and the ratings bodies. Of particular significance is the BBFC. The organization was behind the Manhunt 2 ban, which was later overturned by Britain's High Court. More recently government officials have indicated that their preference is to turn the U.K.'s game rating chores over to the BBFC. The British game industry, however, would prefer PEGI.

Nintendic quotes Sega exec  David Corless:

Yes, [Madworld's] violent. We don’t try to hide that, but as publishers, we see it as a fantasy game - it’s fantasy violence. It’s over the top. It’s cartoony. We also take the violence very seriously. We are working with the age rating boards, with PEGI and with BBFC. We’re not at the end of the game’s development, but we’re working with them now to make sure that we don’t go over the top. The game has been banned in Germany; there’s no getting around that unfortunately. But we are taking it seriously and we’re going to make sure that this game is rated for the appropriate audience.

 

Report: U.K. Video Game Design Degrees Not Worth the Paper They're Printed On

August 25, 2008

A report in the Daily Mail casts doubt on the value of university video game design degrees issued in the U.K.

Of more than 80 such programs, only four meet the standards of Skillset, a nonprofit devoted to the creative industries. From the Daily Mail:

Britain's multi-million-pound computer games industry has criticised universities for offering gaming degrees that fail to equip students for work. Some of the country’s leading firms complain that many courses lack vital computing, maths or art and animation skills. Their comments will reignite debate that too many universities are offering ‘Mickey Mouse’ degrees with little job relevance.

SCEE exec Jamie MacDonald offered harsh criticism:

I can’t remember the last time I employed someone from [the video game programs].

"Britain's Got Crabs" Game Highlights American Crayfish Invasion

August 25, 2008

Earlier this year the BBC reported that the introduction of the highly aggressive American signal crayfish had essentially killed sport fishing in Scotland's Loch Ken.

With the region's traditional fishing tourism in steep decline, the economic health of towns around the Loch is in jeopardy.

By way of publicizing the crisis T-Enterprise has created Britain's Got Crabs, a Flash game which challenges "British Beavers" to shoot waves of the crayfish. It's not much of a game, but it does help to raise awareness of the ecologic crisis in the Loch.

GP: The game is embedded here, so if you'd like to try it just click Play...

Major Sleaze Factor in Atari & Codemasters Anti-Piracy Campaign

August 22, 2008

Thursday's newsletter from gamesindustry.biz contains a terrific editorial on the controversial targeting of file sharers by five U.K. game publishers.

It's a real eye-opener.

Although many gamers were incensed by the attack, gi.biz goes beyond mere opinion and lays out some troubling facts behind the ham-fisted campaign being waged by Atari, Codemasters, Topware Interactive, Reality Pump and Techland:

None of the big publishers or platform holders have touched the action with a barge pole... A group of tier 2 and tier 3 companies... have hired a firm called Davenport Lyons to take action against private individuals for using file-sharing networks to distribute games. This, it appears, is a Davenport Lyons "speciality"...this is a company whose reputation is coloured by a history of threats against private individuals...

 

Davenport Lyons... appear to be using data from a company called Logistep... there have been serious concerns over the legality of Logistep's methods in several European states. In... Switzerland, it stood accused of violating the law in its pursuit of pirates...  In France, a lawyer who was working with Logistep was recently banned from practising law for six months for almost exactly the same behaviour which Davenport Lyons has just demonstrated in the UK...

 

That seems to be why the shock-and-awe tactics of this mass mailing are being employed. £300 or thereabouts is a nice figure - enough to sting badly... but not enough for most people (innocent or guilty!) to be willing to go and hire a lawyer and fight the case...

 

In that case, "grubby" doesn't begin to describe it - just as, when innocent people start receiving those letters and clamouring in large numbers to the media, as they inevitably will, "PR disaster" doesn't begin to describe what will happen next. 

 

Fight piracy. Fight it with every weapon in the arsenal - but play fair. This kind of dirty, nasty and legally questionable action will do nothing other than bring the industry into disrepute...
 

GP: Bravo, gi.biz!

UK Game Publishers Get Medieval on File-Sharers

August 20, 2008

Yesterday, GamePolitics reported that an unemployed immigrant mother of two was ordered by a British court to pay £16,086 (roughly $30,000) to Topware Interactive for uploading its pinball game to a file-sharing network.

Things are about to get much worse.

Today's Times Online reports that Topware's case against Isabella Barwinska may only have been the tip of the iceberg. According to the Times, a quintet of U.K. publishers are targeting those who share PC games. Calling the action an "unprecedented assault on illegal downloads," the Times names Topware, Atari, Reality Pump, Techland and Codemasters as the firms involved. The report says the companies plan to notify 25,000 U.K. consumers that they must pay £300 to settle file-sharing accusations. Otherwise, they risk a ruinous court judgment of the type lodged against Barwinska.

From the Times:

It is estimated that as many as six million people in Britain share games illegally over the internet. The aggressive action marks a dramatic change in the approach to copyright on the internet. The British music industry, hit hard by illegal file-sharing, has taken action against just 150 people in ten years...

 

The move has provoked strong criticism within the games industry. A source close to the Entertainment and Leisure Software Publishers Association said that most publishers would be reluctant to bring legal actions against their “core market” and would be likely to look for other ways to minimise losses due to piracy.

A lawyer for the five publishers commented:

Our clients were incensed by the level of illegal downloading. In the first 14 days since Topware Interactive released Dream Pinball 3D it sold 800 legitimate copies but was illegally downloaded 12,000 times. Hopefully people will think twice if they risk being taken to court.

Via: Edge Online

UK Court Levies $30K Fine Against Unemployed Mom In File-Sharing Case

August 19, 2008

A British woman who uploaded a PC pinball game to a file-sharing network has been ordered to pay publisher Topware Interactive £16,086 (roughly $30,000).

As reported by the BBC, Isabella Barwinska's troubles began when the London woman uploaded a copy of Dream Pinball 3D (retail value about $30). The case was heard at London's Patents County Court. Victorious Topware lawyer David Gore said:

The damages and costs ordered by the Court are significant and should act as a deterrent. This shows that taking direct steps against infringers is an important and effective weapon in the battle against online piracy. This is the first of many. It was always intended that there would be a lot more.

IP lawyer David Harris, who has no stake in the Topware case, told the BBC:

This is a proper Intellectual Property (IP) court that has made this judgement. The previous ones were default judgements where defendants never turned up. It's a much more interesting case in that respect.

Becky Hogge, director of the UK's Open Rights Group commented on the ruling:

An open court process with a full report is certainly preferable to justice of the type being mooted by the government on P2P, where activity takes place behind closed doors through industry action... In relation to the orders for release of personal data, it is important that court processes do not become rubberstamps for industry action but retain judicial safeguards and independence.

Meanwhile, the Daily Mail reports that the defendant is an unemployed Polish immigrant and mother of two from London's downscale East End. As GamePolitics reported last month, four alleged file sharers made lesser settlements with Topware.

UK Game Industry Guy Refutes Newspaper's Ripping of Madworld

August 17, 2008

What’s black and white and read all over?

A newspaper, but if veteran games industry marketer Bruce Everiss has anything to say about it, that should not include the UK’s Daily Mail:

They really are just trying to sell newspapers with sensationalism because nobody with a brain can be stupid enough to believe what they have written.

Everiss took umbrage with an article concerning Madworld, Sega’s upcoming bloody brawler that’s being developed exclusively for the Wii. The Daily Mail suggested that the game would tarnish the Wii’s family-friendly image and quoted a UK watchdog group that is calling for a BBFC ban on the as-yet unreleased title.

For his part, Everiss offered a point-by-point counter to the Mail’s claims. 

  • If a Wii is family friendly then presumably a DVD player is. And you can play totally execrably disgusting content on a DVD player.
  • Game content is mild compared to film and book content. MadWorld just pales into insignificance compared to what is on these other media.
  • Games are age rated with the excellent PEGI system. Every parent can clearly see this on the front of the packaging...
  • There is plenty of equally violent content already available for the Wii. The Mail are just exposing their total ignorance with this...

-Reporting from San Diego, GamePolitics correspondent Andrew Eisen...

 

UK Watchdog Group Calls for Ban on Upcoming Madworld

August 13, 2008

The Daily Mail has published news of the first - but surely not the last - mainstream attack on Sega's upcoming Madworld for the Wii:

Players in the 'hack and slash' game, which is due for a UK release in early 2009, can impale enemies on road signs, rip out hearts and execute them with weapons including chainsaws and daggers.

 

The decision to release a violent game on a console which has based its reputation on family fun has shocked anti-violence pressure groups.
 

John Beyer, head of watchdog group Mediawatch-UK, called for a ban on Madworld:

This game sounds very unsavoury. I hope the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) will view this with concern and decide it should not be granted a classification. Without that it cannot be marketed in Britain. What the rest of world does is up to them. We need to ensure that modern and civilized values take priority rather than killing and maiming people.

 

It seems a shame that the game's manufacturer have decided to exclusively release this game on the Wii. I believe it will spoil the family fun image of the Wii.

An unnamed Nintendo spokesperson told the Daily Mail:

Wii appeals to a wide range of audiences from children and teenagers to adult and senior citizens, anyone from 5 - 95, as such there is a wide range of content for all ages and tastes available. Mad World will be suitably age rated through the appropriate legal channels and thus only available to an audience above the age rating it is given. The game is not made by Nintendo but by Sega.

 

U.K. Video Game Critic Keith Vaz Has a New Target: The Dark Knight

August 5, 2008

Labour MP Keith Vaz, long a critic of violent video games, has taken umbrage to the BBFC's rating of new Batman flick The Dark Knight.

As reported by The Register, Vaz and Conservative MP Iain Duncan Smith object to the film's 12A rating, which means that under 12s can see The Dark Knight if accompanied by their parents:

...Vaz said: "The BBFC should realise there are scenes of gratuitous violence in The Dark Knight to which I would certainly not take my 11-year-old daughter. It should be a 15 classification."

 

Vaz, who has previously railed against video game violence, wants to get the BBFC before his committee's hearings on knife crime later in the year. Presumably its representatives will be required to explain what they think they're doing fostering violent knifey rages in children...

 

The BBFC has defended its rating, admitting that while it was a "borderline" decision, the violence is in over-the-top comic-book fashion and does adhere to the guidelines for a 12A certificate. With a 15 certificate, said spokeswoman Sue Clark, "Younger teenagers would not have been able to see it, and they are the very people who are going to love it. We would have ended up with far more complaints from people who wanted to see the film and couldn't."

 In light of Vaz'z criticism, it's interesting to note that the BBFC will soon take over video game rating chores if the British government has its way.

 

Despite ELSPA Denials, British Govt. Gives Ratings Nod to BBFC

July 31, 2008

Some rather curious developments out of the U.K. yesterday... 

Early on, James Kirkup, political correspondent for The Guardian, wrote a story to the effect that the British government would recommend that the BBFC, which rather famously banned Manhunt 2 last year, should rate games for the UK market. Kirkup predicted the official word would come today.

Later yesterday, ELSPA, which represents UK game publishers, called Kirkup's report "speculation" and "scaremongering."

Yet Kirkup has proved prescient. As Edge reports this morning:

A report from the UK House of Commons Select Committee on Culture, Media, and Sport has revealed that body’s preference in BBFC ratings over the industry self-regulating PEGI system...

 

the committee maintains that BBFC ratings are more “thorough and rigorous" than the PEGI system, and that the BBFC symbols “command greater confidence”... 

Meanwhile, the CMS committee's report itself concludes:

There is a distinct issue about labelling of video games to indicate the nature of their content. Two systems currently exist side by side: the industry awards its own ratings, and the British Board of Film Classification awards classifications to a small number of games which feature content unsuitable for children. The dual system is confusing, and Dr [Tanya] Byron recommended that there should instead be a single hybrid system. We believe that Dr Byron's solution may not command confidence in the games industry and would not provide significantly greater clarity for consumers.

 

While either of the systems operated by the BBFC and by the industry would be workable in principle, we believe that the widespread recognition of the BBFC's classification categories and their statutory backing offer significant advantages which the industry's system lacks. We therefore agree that the BBFC should have responsibility for rating games with content appropriate for adults or teenagers, as proposed by Dr Byron, and that these ratings should appear prominently. Distributors would of course be free to continue to use industry ratings in addition.

Gizmodo terms the CMS recommendation "decisive," adding:

The decision will come as a real blow to the pan-European games rating system, PEGI, backed by games software developer organisation, ELSPA as well as big guns like Microsoft, Nintendo and Ubisoft.
 

 

U.K Game Publishers Dispute News Report that Govt. Has Chosen BBFC over PEGI

July 30, 2008

As GamePolitics reported this morning, a story in British newspaper The Telegraph claims that the U.K. government has already chosen the BBFC over industry favorite PEGI as the nation's future rating system.

MCVUK is now reporting that ELSPA, which represents U.K. game publishers, has disputed The Telegraph's story. An ELSPA rep told MCV:

The reports in parts of Fleet Street are, we would suggest, purely speculation. It is scaremongering and should be treated as such. The Government is now entering into a consulation period in which in which we are assured all the issues are being considered.

No decision has been made, and ELSPA will be fully engaged in this process in the months ahead.

GP: We can't help but note that ELSPA - not the British government - is denying the story about what the British government plans to do.


 

In UK, GTA 4 Commercial Avoids Official Censure

July 30, 2008

A TV commerical for Grand Theft Auto 4 has dodged the censorship bullet in the U.K.

As reported by gamesindustry.biz, the Advertising Standards Authority declined to act on complaints about the spot, seen at left:

17 viewers took exception of the ad... Ten viewers complained about the violence, while seven took exception to the time of the broadcast...

 

"Although some viewers may object to the nature of the game, the ad itself did not feature sequences that were likely to have a direct harmful influence on children or young people," said the ASA.

GamePolitics readers may recall that the ASA similarly cleared a TV spot for Bully: Scholarship Edition in a ruling earlier this month.

U.K. Govt. to Tighten Game Ratings, Favors BBFC over PEGI

July 30, 2008

In the ongoing debate over which content rating scheme to use, British government officials appear to be coming down on the side of the BBFC rather than the PEGI system favored by the video game industry.

As reported by the Telegraph, on Thursday government ministers will issue proposals to tighten rules concerning ratings and expand the role of the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) in rating games:

All computer games will have to carry cinema-style age classifications under new Government plans to protect children from scenes of explicit sex and disturbing violence.

 

Online computer games where players interact with strangers via the internet also face new classification rules for the first time.

The official action is being taken in response to recommendations made by Dr. Tanya Byron (left). The TV psychologist undertook a government-funded study in 2007 to examine the effects of video games and the Internet on children.

The Telegraph predicts a "fierce backlash" from UK game publishers:

Many games makers have strongly opposed moves to expand the BBFC's role in classifying games. The [game industry] group will today host a meeting in London of software chief executives to discuss how best to resist the expansion of the BBFC's role in rating games.

 

Games makers are mounting a lobbying campaign to discredit the BBFC, arguing that it lacks the expertise for the task. Games makers argue that parental education about games is more important than new classification rules.

While the industry may think the BBFC too restrictive, at the other end of the spectrum, Conservative Parliamentarian Julian Brazier believes the organization isn't tough enough:

The guidelines are too weak on the part of the BBFC. I don't believe it is an adequate guarantor of standards. Only the [video game] industry can appeal the BBFC's decisions, so in practice, classifications can only be reduced. We should have a system like that in Australia, where any member of the general public can ask for an age classification to be reviewed.

The BBFC is best known in the gaming community for its controversial 2007 decision to ban Manhunt 2. That ruling was later overturned on appeal.

The Telegraph is also running an FAQ on the government plan which mentions the government timetable:

Ministers will on Thursday open a four-month consultation on their proposals, trying to win agreement from the games industry for tighter classification. The final rules will be drawn up after that and are likely to be implemented next year.

 

Facebook Stabbing Game App Causes Controversy

July 28, 2008

With knife crime a major social issue in the United Kingdom these days, it's probably no surprise that a Facebook app in which players "shank" one another is raising eyebrows.

Marketing Week reports that the stabbing game is part of Facebook's popular SuperPoke! application, created by Slide.com, an American firm. From the report:

The game...  has come in for heavy criticism from family members of those affected by the recent spate of teenage knife crimes. The use of the word "shank", a street slang term for a knife, has led to claims that the game is specifically targeted at teenagers...

 

The application encourages users to "do stuff to their friends", options include kicking and punching as well as more conventional activities such as smiling and sending flowers.

A knife icon which players sent to one another in the game has apparently been removed in response to protests.

Via: casualgaming.biz

Suicidal Inmates Granted Video Game Privileges in UK Prisons

July 25, 2008

If they hope to enjoy video games while incarcerated, British prisoners need to be very well behaved - or suicidal.

That's according to a report on ITN which details a new video game directive from the UK's Prison Service:

The document bans prisons from spending taxpayers' money on buying hardware or computer games for inmates with immediate effect.

 

Last year the Government admitted spending more than £10,000 on 80 PlayStations and 15 Xboxes for young offender institutions... Only inmates on the highest level of Incentives and Earned Privileges (IEP) and those at risk of suicide will be allowed to play computer games.

In granting gaming rights to inmates who are suicide risks, the Prison Service seems to be accepting the idea that video games are a stress reliever.

Prisoners who do earn gaming priveleges won't be playing GTA IV or Manhunt 2, however. R18 games will be banned from British prisons as of September.

Did ESA Boss Endorse PEGI Over BBFC at E3?

July 24, 2008

MCVUK writes that Entertainment Software Association CEO Michael Gallagher (left) endorsed the Pan-European Game Information (PEGI) rating system over that of the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) during last week's state-of-the-industry speech at E3 in Los Angeles.

From the MCVUK report:

As part of his keynote speech, Gallagher was critical of the Byron Report’s highly controversial backing of the BBFC system – and made it clear that the Entertainment Software Association believes it was the wrong way to go.

MCVUK is referring to this section of the Gallagher speech:

Friends and allies across the globe are facing their own challenges. Our success as a business and entertainment medium has caught the attention and the interest of foreign regulators and governments. Earlier this year we saw the release of the Byron Report, which praised the ESRB's work with retailers to help enforce sales restrictions to minors. We are now seeing a robust debate between the BBFC and PEGI. And while this is a European question requiring a European solution, our American experience proves that industry self-regulation is the best way to provide parents the information they need to make appropriate purchasing decisions.

Frankly, we're not reading Gallagher's remarks as expressing criticism of the Byron Review, although the ESA head's preference for self-regulation is clear. On the other hand, it would be natural for the ESA to back PEGI, as its UK game industry counterparts, including publishers' group ELSPA, have expressed a clear distaste for handing game rating responsibilities over to the BBFC.

We've got a request in to the ESA for clarification on Gallagher's view. In the meantime, you can read the full text of Gallagher's E3 speech here.

Armless UK Mayor To Be Mo-Capped For Video Game

July 20, 2008

British tabloid News of the World reports that 64-year-old Crediton Mayor Frank Letch (left) will be motion-captured for an upcoming video game.

Letch, born with no arms, has reportedly developed a remarkable dexterity with his feet. He can drive a car, peel a potato and write, using just his feet.

From the NotW story:

[Letch] will be kitted out with special leggings fitted with electronic tags before being filmed carrying out various tasks with his feet.

 

The footage will then be mapped onto a computer and Frank...  will be transformed into a cartoon... He was approached by Fragment Media, based in Newcastle, after its director Simon McKeown spotted him at a disability exhibition.

The game project involving Letch is not specified.

Game Lampoons UK Prime Minister Over His Food Wasting Concerns

July 20, 2008

Earlier this month British Prime Minister Gordon Brown spotlighted the topic of food waste in the U.K., which he said costs the average household about £8 ($16). Brown's comments, which included criticisms of "buy one, get one free" promotions run by supermarkets, sparked some derision in the UK.

Via the Wasted Food blog, we've learned of an online parody game, Gordon Brown and the Kingdom of the Wasters:

You get to control the British Prime Minister as he tries to recover good food like bananas and cupcakes while avoiding rotten items like fish bones.

 

Apparently, dastardly opposition leader David Cameron is the one throwing away the good food. The goal is to catch Cameron and stop him from giving another press conference. Zelda, it’s not.

 

Eidos Invites British Conservative Leader to Tomb Raider: Underworld Preview Event

July 18, 2008

UK Conservative leader, occasional video game violence critic, and potential prime minister David Cameron has been invited by Eidos Interactive to visit a July 23rd media event unveiling Tomb Raider: Underworld, according to MCVUK.

The invitation was extended following an interview with UK newspaper The Guardian in which Cameron compared his political fortunes to playing Tomb Raider

There is an element to politics that is a bit like Tomb Raider. Until you have cleared level one, which I have incidentally never done, you cannot get on to level two. Level one is: are you a reasonable, decent, non-discriminating, sensible, practical person who understands the world as it is lived today, who wants to live in a modern world and who accepts what that means? If so, then you can move on to level two, where you can talk about some of the difficult issues about families and about responsibilities which can lead to trouble.

Jon Brooke, Eidos' UK marketing boss, seized the opportunity to invite Cameron:

We’re delighted to hear that David Cameron is talking to today’s voters using Tomb Raider as an analogy. As we build up towards launch, we’d be really pleased to offer him an exclusive look at the latest Lara Croft adventure, so he can see for himself how the series has evolved– and maybe come up with some high definition political parallels. Of course, both [current prime minister] Gordon Brown and [Liberal Democrat] Nick Clegg are equally welcome, provided they all sit together nicely.


 

In UK, Bully: Scholarship Edition TV Ad Escapes Censure

July 9, 2008

As reported by vnunet, the UK's Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) has declined to take action against a commercial for Rockstar's Bully: Scholarship Edition.

The ASA received 31 complaints about the ad:

The game's main character is seen in the ad destroying property, firing a catapult and shielding himself from a burning substance in a science classroom. Two other characters are shown lifting another student by his underpants...

 

Several viewers, some of whom had experienced bullying, described it as 'offensive and distasteful'.

 

Others said that it 'glorified, trivialised and encouraged bullying and violence', and that it was scheduled inappropriately because it could be seen by children.

Take Two argued that the ad was comedic in nature and that sensationalized media coverage of Bully: Scholarship Edition probably led to some of the complaints. 

GamePolitics ShoutBox

Posted 08/28/08 at 10:03pm
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign: right? ack sorry for the long windedness ><
Posted 08/28/08 at 10:02pm
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign:infrastructure, let the states deal with the millions on disability or SSI let states run shanty towns for the great unwashed masses and all the death and disease that will ensue, as long as the middle and rich pay less taxes who cares righ
Posted 08/28/08 at 10:00pm
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign:classes, thus government has to regulate business to ensure its not raping the populace and try and get business to aid the lower classes somehow. If government cannot do this then it should go back to worrying about the border and infrast
Posted 08/28/08 at 10:00pm
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign:cost of ignoring millions because they do not have to not take a loss on the grotesque, Government by default has to regulate business because business is becoming larger than it and its damaging government indirectly by ignoring the lower
Posted 08/28/08 at 09:59pm
ZippyDSMlee: Dark Sovereign:"Competitive market" is a misnomer as well, in a blind capitalistic setup it creates conglomerates that seek to maxize profit by raising cost on the end user, "profiteering" is a inherent issue when they can make grotesque profit at the co
Posted 08/28/08 at 09:26pm
HarmlessBunny: http://jaablog.jaablaw.com/2008/08/28/election-postmortem.aspx#comment-132072 There we go for you Mattie 5
Posted 08/28/08 at 08:50pm
Mattie: @Harmeless Bunny- Could you post the link? I'm having trouble finding it.
Posted 08/28/08 at 06:50pm
Tarosan: The truth hurts a lot... a whole lot but then again he's already fucked
Posted 08/28/08 at 06:49pm
Tarosan: LOL he's attacking a newly elected Judge for calling him unprofessional
Posted 08/28/08 at 06:18pm
Mech: Dark Sovereign, you are sorely in need of an economics lesson.
Posted 08/28/08 at 05:14pm
HarmlessBunny: Woot! JT is now attacking the newly elected Judge's in Florida. Guess he thought he could use more enemies :P Checking the JAAblog is addictive to watch lol.
Posted 08/28/08 at 05:01pm
Dark Sovereign: @scribe: There is still no adequate reason for the government to run healthcare.
Posted 08/28/08 at 04:57pm
E. Zachary Knight: I agree that the awards in many cases are to much.I admit that healthcare is complicated and it is hard to find the right formula.
Posted 08/28/08 at 04:56pm
E. Zachary Knight: Darn Dennis for flying to PAX today. I wanted some news.
Posted 08/28/08 at 04:17pm
scribe999: in terms of malpractice and negligence. Tort reform is something I do happen to agree with.
Posted 08/28/08 at 04:16pm
scribe999: civil regulations are still regulations. and a major argument for why healtchare is so expensive is the ease of legal recourse
Posted 08/28/08 at 04:07pm
E. Zachary Knight: If a healthcare provider was neglegent in their duties they could be sued for that neglegence.
Posted 08/28/08 at 04:07pm
E. Zachary Knight: I am talking more of civil court. Not criminal.
Posted 08/28/08 at 04:06pm
scribe999: just a gap in what you wrote EZK...how does a judicial system enforce regulations without regulations already in place.
Posted 08/28/08 at 04:05pm
E. Zachary Knight: where did I say the judicial system would write legislation?
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